Un-salable cottage

Dimbo

Yes, greatcrested, people who have shown enough interest to took round the cottage since it is for sale do not like the clause permitting strangers to be in the garden anytime. Also my one patient potential buyer has suggested it could be a tiny studio for her painting so the deeds have to be made so that is okay or she won't buy it either.

davidmcn

Dimbo said:

my one patient potential buyer has suggested it could be a tiny studio for her painting so the deeds have to be made so that is okay or she won't buy it either.

You can only sell what you own. Assuming the property is sitting empty you'd be better just to find buyers who are less fussy, rather than ones who expect you to start (possibly fruitless) negotiations with the neighbours about acquiring additional rights from them.

xylophone

Explore how much it would cost to buy out the right?

Jeepers_Creepers

Who 'owns' it - you? It's shown as being within the boundary of 'your' property? But other homes have a right of access to it as a 'washroom'?

Is it in ropey condition? (Can this be assisted - not too much, just a few bricks removed, especially around a roof joist or just above ground level where it might weaken the structure?) Any cracks in the wall that would suggest shallow founds? Where does the water supply come from - is it metered? Can it be shut off...?

If so, you could determine that it's currently unsafe and get a builder out to quote for rebuilding it properly - good foundations, metered water supply, fully damp-proofed, everything - but nothing extra added to it beyond what it already has (ie no electricity, no drains, now't). Just to rebuild it as a good quality equivalent of what it currently is - except now with a metered water supply.

Divide that quote by however many folk have an entitlement to use it for washing their laundry (hopefully only a few folk), and hand-deliver (so you can have a chat) a letter to each which states that "Mr B'tard (name him) of 2 A'ole Lane has brought to my attention that you have an entitlement to access this small outbuilding for the use as a washhouse only. Please bear in mind that (a) it has no power supply, (b) no drain, (c) can not be used for any other purpose other than as a washroom, and (d) is in very poor - potentially dangerous - condition. There appears to be two clear options open to us all; one is to demolish the building permanently (which I will undertake at no cost to anyone) or - two - for it to be rebuilt to make it safe, and with a metered water supply for which we would all be subsequently liable for. But with no additional facilities added such as electricity or drains as these were not present originally. I have received a quote for this which comes to approximately £2.5k each (or whatever it is). What would you like to do?"

Explain, verbally, what the actual issue is - Mr B is trying it on for whatever reason, and is scuppering the sale of your late mum's house at a time of personal grieving. Make it absolutely clear to these good folk that you will not entertain the situation this guy seemingly demands - constant access to the garden for storage - so, unless anyone actually wants to visit the room for genuinely washing their clothes, then it's clearly an irrelevance to everyone. Should anyone insist on this for whatever bizarre reason, then it'll need to be rebuilt - but still won't have any facility other than as a laundry with no leccy or drain - so it would be handwashing only, and no waste water should be deposited on your land. No-one can visit for any other purpose, so they'd be paying £2+k for a folly they cannot even visit. Don't say this as a 'threat' to these good folk, say it jokingly, chucklingly, to show that you would find it as ridiculous as everyone else who's normal - BUT, that this would be the situation you could be forced into following.

Visit Mr B first - explain to him that you are about to visit all other concerned parties with this letter. Tell him that you have looked into the terms of this covenant/deed, and it is absolutely unambiguous that the use of this 'washhouse' is just for that. Explain that access for any other reason would be trespass. Explain that to use it as a washhouse would require manual washing with either cold water or for him to bring a safe means of heating the water to the room. Waste water would need to be removed from your land without spillage afterwards - or you will deem that 'criminal damage' as he has been 'put on notice' of this situation. Explain that you have been told by neighbours that no-one - absolutely no-one - has accessed that washhouse for the whole duration of your late mum's occupancy. Explain that this is a very distressing and emotional time for you and your family, and all you want is to find some closure by selling up and moving on - you cannot believe that anyone would try on what is clearly totally unreasonable. Add that you will not allow this to happen - if necessary, you will let the sale fall through, continue to rent the property, and then take legal action to have the covenant annulled. Tell him you have LegProt to the value of £50k's of fees - so good luck, pal. (If he also has LP, almost certainly they won't pursue it.)

This might be fantasy, alive only in my head, but I think it's what I'd do.

theoretica

This case is interesting reading - as I interpret it, it was about access to a well and the verdict was that the right remained (despite the well being filled in) but the neighbours only had right of way if they were in need of water from the well, eg mains supply had failed seriously enough to reopen the well - they could not walk to where the well had been just because they wanted to.

https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWLandRA/2009/2008_1430.html

I half suspect the nasty neighbour wants to be bought off to agree to a deed cancelling the right.

princeofpounds

Jeepers_Creepers said:

This might be fantasy, alive only in my head, but I think it's what I'd do.

And then.... *FINISH HIM!!!* - an almighty left!-right!-uppercut! Sparks fly - hits the ground cold out. The crowd roars.

Gentoo365

Could you offer to buy a shed for their garden in return for whatever is needed to remove this right? or even see what the cost would be to relocate it to the other garden (knock it down and build something else)? 

Jeepers_Creepers

theoretica said:

This case is interesting reading - as I interpret it, it was about access to a well and the verdict was that the right remained (despite the well being filled in) but the neighbours only had right of way if they were in need of water from the well, eg mains supply had failed seriously enough to reopen the well - they could not walk to where the well had been just because they wanted to.

https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWLandRA/2009/2008_1430.html

I half suspect the nasty neighbour wants to be bought off to agree to a deed cancelling the right.

Yes, almost certainly that's what this neighb wants. What a guy.

I presume these must be pretty old properties, having a shared outdoor 'laundry'. If the deeds state that's the reason for access, then it's pretty clear no-one has any right any longer to do so - unless they feign a complete wash cycle, buy hand, out in the cold.

It's annoying - it will obviously put people off buying - but, in reality, if it was demolished, I imagine there's no judgement in the land that would force its reinstatement.

Potentially a legal minefield, tho'.

Jeepers_Creepers

Gentoo365 said:

Could you offer to buy a shed for their garden in return for whatever is needed to remove this right? or even see what the cost would be to relocate it to the other garden (knock it down and build something else)? 

That's opening up a negotiation, an acknowledgement of their 'entitlement'. With an 'ole like this, who knows where it could lead.

The contents of deeds should be confirmed. If it really is only as a 'washhouse', then there surely no longer remains any legal justification whatsoever for a neighb to come on to this land to access that room. It ain't a washhouse, it hasn't been one for numerous decades, it never will be one.

diggingdude

Could just look at auctioning the house