Bank APP scam rejection and possible lax security measures

colsten

naedanger said:

I actually think it extremely unlikely that the account does have the same name as the op's family member. They would have not had time to set it up, and having the same name by coincidence seems highly unlikely. 

Who knows what happened - we have only got 3rd hand info, and can't see anything the bank(s) see about the case. So all we can do is speculate. I don't really want to describe my thoughts on how the fraudsters might have approached this, in order not to give some would-be criminals ideas they may not have had themselves. Suffice to say, I reckon it's perfectly possible the fraudster has had a legit bank account for some time, and the OP's relative became a random victim since he shares a name with the fraudster.

connor0811

I’ve just asked my relative about the transaction on his actual statement rather than online banking app, thinking this would take out the nickname possibility. He shown me his statement and it was made to his name then 2 and a lot of zeros. I don’t know if this is actually relevant and wether the true account name would show up on a statement.

Either way I’m going to sort the FOS form in the meantime and see what’s what.

Armorica

Not sure the UK location of the receiving account is really a factor these days. People frequently keep their old branch sort-code when moving around the country. 

When you send an online banking payment - you don't see (typically) in your record the name of the account it was sent to. You're just seeing the name that you typed in. This is true for the app and statement - this is a red herring you ought to focus less on.

If Confirmation of Payee was used, then the name of the receiving account would have been checked against this and a warning popped up. (Which bank was it?) The name on the receiving account is not checked as part of the payment - COP is a pre-check. So whether COP happened is pretty fundamental here.

Unless it hits a fraud check, AML, or other delay, Faster Payments will settle in two seconds. It can be moved onwards within another two seconds. But, strictly, if this was at the same bank - it may have happened across their books - not the actual Faster Payments Service.

How you were scammed does matter now - as that drives whether the customer or the bank is liable.

colsten

connor0811 said:

I’ve just asked my relative about the transaction on his actual statement rather than online banking app, thinking this would take out the nickname possibility. He shown me his statement and it was made to his name then 2 and a lot of zeros. I don’t know if this is actually relevant and wether the true account name would show up on a statement.

Either way I’m going to sort the FOS form in the meantime and see what’s what.

Statements and transaction lists usually show the payee name as chosen by the person who made the payment, regardless of whether that payee name passed the CoP check or not. 

At least that is the case with Santander, Barclays, Bank of Scotland, COOP, First Direct, Halifax, HSBC, Lloyds, Metro Bank, Monzo, M&S Bank, Nationwide BS, Natwest, RBS, Starling, Tesco Bank, TSB, Ulster Bank and Virgin Money (all of whom I have current accounts with).

naedanger

colsten said:

naedanger said:

I actually think it extremely unlikely that the account does have the same name as the op's family member. They would have not had time to set it up, and having the same name by coincidence seems highly unlikely. 

Who knows what happened - we have only got 3rd hand info, and can't see anything the bank(s) see about the case. So all we can do is speculate. I don't really want to describe my thoughts on how the fraudsters might have approached this, in order not to give some would-be criminals ideas they may not have had themselves. Suffice to say, I reckon it's perfectly possible the fraudster has had a legit bank account for some time, and the OP's relative became a random victim since he shares a name with the fraudster.

I don't pretend to know what happened. What I aim to do, is listen to what the poster is saying, and then give my thoughts on how I would respond in that situation. 

And in the op's position I would start by pointing out what I thought were all the bank's failings and then wait to hear how they respond.  Depending on what they say I might modify or drop some points, and possibly add others, from my argument and continue to progress through the full complaint process to FOS.

(My reading of the scam was that it had started very opportunistically, with the type of robot call, I get every other day. If they had gone to the bother of finding someone with the same name as that on an account they had already set up then I think the call would have started differently. But yes, its speculation.) 

connor0811

colsten said:

connor0811 said:

I’ve just asked my relative about the transaction on his actual statement rather than online banking app, thinking this would take out the nickname possibility. He shown me his statement and it was made to his name then 2 and a lot of zeros. I don’t know if this is actually relevant and wether the true account name would show up on a statement.

Either way I’m going to sort the FOS form in the meantime and see what’s what.

Statements and transaction lists usually show the payee name as chosen by the person who made the payment, regardless of whether that payee name passed the CoP check or not. 

At least that is the case with Santander, Barclays, Bank of Scotland, COOP, First Direct, Halifax, HSBC, Lloyds, Metro Bank, Monzo, M&S Bank, Nationwide BS, Natwest, RBS, Starling, Tesco Bank, TSB, Ulster Bank and Virgin Money (all of whom I have current accounts with).

This bank is one of those so that makes sense! 

colsten

connor0811 said:

colsten said:

connor0811 said:

I’ve just asked my relative about the transaction on his actual statement rather than online banking app, thinking this would take out the nickname possibility. He shown me his statement and it was made to his name then 2 and a lot of zeros. I don’t know if this is actually relevant and wether the true account name would show up on a statement.

Either way I’m going to sort the FOS form in the meantime and see what’s what.

Statements and transaction lists usually show the payee name as chosen by the person who made the payment, regardless of whether that payee name passed the CoP check or not. 

At least that is the case with Santander, Barclays, Bank of Scotland, COOP, First Direct, Halifax, HSBC, Lloyds, Metro Bank, Monzo, M&S Bank, Nationwide BS, Natwest, RBS, Starling, Tesco Bank, TSB, Ulster Bank and Virgin Money (all of whom I have current accounts with).

This bank is one of those so that makes sense! 

It doesn't show whether CoP was passed successfully or not. The bank will, however, have on record whether it did or not. I suppose you could ask for a SAR to see what they hold.

phillw

naedanger said:
They would have not had time to set it up, and having the same name by coincidence seems highly unlikely. Sounds more like the fraudster somehow spoofed the name (e.g. by somehow getting  a name of his choosing to display) or perhaps the op's family member is mistaken.

My guess is that the person said to enter their name in the payee field, then when cop appeared saying they said "it will say my name, to confirm who you are talking to".
If you didn't get a cop at all, or no error then the complaint is better.

I have been getting direct debit failure messages from normal mobile phone numbers (for companies I don't use, but mostly it's from the mobile operator that originally issued my number & so it's not a sophisticated scam).

I doubt it had anything to do with the online transaction he had just made, they could just send the messages to random numbers.

connor0811

phillw said:

I doubt it had anything to do with the online transaction he had just made, they could just send the messages to random numbers.

I don’t either I just think it was a coincidence and it’s made him panic and believe it even more.

connor0811

Sorry to bump an old thread but the bank rejected the complaint at first, I referred it to the financial ombudsman and they decided in my brothers favour and the bank are paying back the full amount plus 8% interest.

Once again thank you to all that replied!