Bereavement and State Pension Repayment

wilfred30

Gig1968 said:

Thankyou NedS  for your comments. I  agree with you I'm dealing with mom's business as my dad isn't capable. There will be no easy win. As for the comments from Mcneff unbelievable, heartless and painful to read. Mom and dad never had a car in their lives mate. Different era spent their lives struggling with money. Of course she had handbags and a wedding ring and an engagement ring but if you think those remaining keepsakes of my mom whom I watched pass away in intensive care are going to be sold. Well I'm sorry i just hope our situation never presents itself to anyone else. Simply dreadful. Dad now gets £175 a week to live. Eighty pounds less than four weeks ago. So as far as I am concerned, best of luck to the DWP. Bills don't just suddenly just stop when someone dies.

There was nothing wrong with McNeff's post.  He/she said mostly everyone, not everyone and did, in fact, agree that the DWP have no power to reclaim the overpaid pension.

Gig1968

My comments were related to deceased people having at least a car, handbag or ring. That's low. Whatever you may think I would never stoop to suggest that someone should suggest that your mom's wedding ring should be sold or even a handbag.

Gig1968

Gholmesadmin thankyou once again. You were wrong and unfortunately out of pocket. I have just telephoned the DWP debt management centre in Wolverhampton actually spoke to a nice guy., explained the situation in full, after my father gave them permission over phone for me to speak to them on his behalf  as he struggles to communicate to well.. After barely three questions asking about his joint account, me telling him his age and how long he had been married,, and how he was struggling with the loss Explaining mom had no money. He showed great sympathy Hesaid he would mark the file as my father unable to pay. Case closed we would never here from them again. He actually asked me to wish his condolences to my father.
So to all those who critisced me, told me what to do, like the comment above. Having read that article from Paul Lewis last night,  the evidence was there the government have no right to try and recover their errors.
The money he has will help in his difficult times ahead without his wife after 62 years ,,.....
Thanks to the many nice comments from the majority of the posters.

Sky_

Gig1968 said:

My comments were related to deceased people having at least a car, handbag or ring. That's low. Whatever you may think I would never stoop to suggest that someone should suggest that your mom's wedding ring should be sold or even a handbag.

I'm so sorry for your loss and that you're having to deal with DWP alongside it.  It's beyond horrible that so many people are dying, especially without having their loved ones around them.

I didn't see McNeiff's comments as saying you should sell any of your mom's possessions, just that a person's belongings are their 'estate' and can be given or passed on to spouses, family etc, just as money can.  

Gig1968

My dad is less worried about money than he was this morning, now Bless him. I'm sure the government wont miss it.

Gorf123

Gig1968 said:

My mother recently passed away. this month?The DWP God bless them are asking for two weeks worth of pension  payments back.  This is not quite true as it should be 12 days but having spoken to some heartless soul at the DWP refused to change the amount. It was paid into a joint account. My mother had no estate everything was in a joint name.  So if there was no estate how can they can claim it  back. I know it's not right. But having spent an hour waiting to speak to the bereavement office and then the same to the pensions department with no sympathy and not them even taking to account that mom died two days into one of the weeks. I am going to make it as bloody difficult as I can for them to get it back. It's hard enough losing your mom as it is...

I'm sorry about your mum. It's bad enough but what makes it worse is that the letters they send about overpayments look like they are computer-generated. They do not take into account that you are going through a bereavement.

Having to make an educated guess about her age based on how long she and you dad have been together, but it's very highly likely that her calculations were weekly in advance. This means that her estate would be entitled to the full week's payment for the week in which she died. Any overpayments are almost certainly full weeks, not part weeks.

NedS said:

Sorry for your loss.

I'm not an expert on such matters, but surely everyone has an estate. You mention everything in joint name. With whom - her partner/spouse? What assets / debts did she have? I assume the amount would pass to her estate as a debt and DWP will wait their turn along with all other claims on her estate to be settled in probate by the executor. Did she have a will?

It is frequent for someone to die with no estate, especially someone from a generation where nothing except a house would be bounght on credit, and all income went into a joint bank account.

calcotti said:

Any payment made for a period following the death is an overpayment which is a debt payable by the estate.

True, but as with all debts, they come second in priority to the funeral. If there's no money in the estate after the funeral, then creditors have to write off the debt.

TELLIT01 said:

I may be wrong, but there is something buzzing around in the back of my mind that repayment of pension overpayment will be requested but will not be pursued beyond that original request letter.  Somebody with more direct experience of the system can comment.

I'm afraid you are wrong, at least when it comes to DWP. I know for a fact they are notified when money comes into the estate well after the bereavement (such as the protracted sale of a house) and they will contact the executor again about those little overpayments.

calcotti said:

When I dealt with an estate I recall DWP being able to recall money from the bank account without me having any control over it - but perhaps that is not possible from a joint account.

That's the way banks think. There's no way to know whose money belongs to whom so with joint accounts, the bank assumes that all the money belongs to the survivor following a bereavement. It's no surprise that DWP can't take money from a joint account.

Gig1968 said:

The letter states my dad has to make payment via card or bank transfer so I guess they can't dip into the joint account and take it back. 

The caveat here is that it's the estate's liability not your dad's. If your mum's estate is empty, which it sounds like it will be once the funeral has been paid for, there's no money in the estate to pay back the overpayment.

McKneff said:

Mostly everyone has an estate, a car, jewelry, wedding ring. Handbags etc. 

This is almost all so wrong I don't even know where to begin. At least you got it right about the joint account.

The valuables you describe are only part of the estate if they are sold. If family members keep them for sentimental value, they have no value to the estate. The car is perhaps the only exception, but even then, I'd be surprised if it didn't have any practical value within the family. They wouldn't be expected to buy it from the estate.

NedS said:

I suspect DWP are trying it on, to see if it is repaid quickly (easy win). There is no responsibility on her husband to repay the money as it is not his debt. Simply pass the letter to whoever is dealing with her estate.

Listen to NedS. NedS is wise.

Gorf123

comeandgo said:

Condolences to you.  My mum died last week and we still don’t have the death certificate so cannot inform DWP regarding pension but after dads death a few years ago know that a repayment will be required.  Regarding your dads income, my mum had that amount a week and got pension credit and paid reduced council tax and reduced rent.  Check your dad is getting all the benefits he is entitled to.

I'm sorry about your mum - I know it's probably too late, and you'll have your certificate by now, but if not you can get through to DWP by phone and can stop benefits or pensions without needing a death certificate. If you can get through their security questions, you probably won't even need to send one in future (or the BD8 form which registrars sometimes give out).

Gig1968 said:

Thankyou Gholmesadmin for your kind words. I have just read an article from Paul Lewis from THIS IS MONEY from 2019. The government have no legal right to reclaim the money.

...I think Paul Lewis is incorrect - I'm sure that for every blog stating the author's personal journey through the red tape and beaurocracy, there's a dozen solicitor pages like this one which state the estate is liable.

If someone is overpaid after they die, or through omission or their mistake they were being paid too much before they died, the overpayment becomes a debt for the estate. It needs to be paid back after the funeral has been paid for, and before the beneficiaries receive any money. It's a bad idea to ignore letters. Just write back saying there's no money in the estate (if that's true).

calcotti makes a good point- if DWP really do only make a feeble attempt to recover an overpayment, what's to stop someone procrastinating about telling them just to get a bunch of money for weeks that they aren't entitled to?

Elmer_BeFuddled

I've always been under the (dis?)-illusion that pensions are paid four weekly in arrears. Or is that a new thing?

sheramber

Elmer_BeFuddled said:

I've always been under the (dis?)-illusion that pensions are paid four weekly in arrears. Or is that a new thing?

They used to be paid in  advance and some elderly people will still be on that  system.
My father dies in 1982. He was paid in advance and his estate was asked to pay back 1 day.

Gorf123

Not sure why his estate needed to pay back one day. Pension calculations used to be weekly in advance, then they were weekly in arrears, currently they are daily in arrears. The calculation regime you start on is the one you keep for your retirement.

The payment frequency for all of them might be weekly, fortnightly, four weekly, quarterly or annually.