Ryanair Advice Required Please - Should I bother pursuing this???

knitwearmodel

In a nutshell;

My father – died of cancer on 15th December 2020. When discussing his final wishes and administration of the estate before he died, he stated that he wished for me to try and recover the money lost to Ryan air in Summer 2020 (£1000), as he felt the situation extremely unfair.

The party of travellers were 2 retired adults, their daughter (a COVID-19 research nurse for the NHS) and partner (works in manufacturing).

The party of 4 were supposed to travel to Ibiza for parents 50th anniversary - where they had gone on honeymoon 50 years ago.

Two people in the party were extremely vulnerable (Father - blood cancer, Mother - Idiopathic Pulmonary Fibrosis) – in fact, my father, caught covid in the hospital and died sooner than anticipated which is testament to this.

Two people in the party of employment age, would have had to quarantine on the return journey and neither had the annual leave requirements to be able to fulfil this commitment on top of the holiday (3 weeks leave required for a 1 week holiday), nor could they afford to take the quarantine period as unpaid. Government guidance was NOT to travel.

Flights were being cancelled in droves, however, this flight to Ibiza still operated. We tried very hard to contact Ryan Air to let them know the reasons why we would not be able to take up the flight but it is extremely hard to contact a faceless organisation who make it as obstructive as possible in order to contact them, the website just takes you in circles (written email evidence that we contacted them explaining and asking for a refund).

My late father contacted the bank (HSBC) and was refunded the money. Ryanair then disputed this citing the reason as ‘No Show’ – which I have already stated we tried may ways of contacting the company.

The bank took the money BACK from my dad’s account.

Dad wanted to dispute this -however he then became too ill to be able to continue with this.

Which avenue should I take if any? Has anyone been successful in taking Ryanair to small claims court, or another avenue?

I can't find any policy information for refunding the vulnerable or for those sticking to government advice - only if the flight was cancelled, which it wasn't. 

Many thanks for reading and for any information you may be able to give me

Nicola

[Deleted User]

It would have been one for their travel insurance.

I wouldn't waste further time or money on pursuing RyanAir, as they haven't done anything wrong in this instance.

macman

Sorry for your loss. The answer is no. I can understand your father's frustration, but the fact remains that the requirement to isolate on return is no concern or responsibility of Ryanair. If you were able to legally travel and the flight operated, then you either turn up or are classified as a no-show, with no refund available. It might have been better to take up the voucher offer for a later booking and then hope that that flight was cancelled, but what's done is done.

The fact that HSBC reviewed your claim and subsequently reversed the chargeback confirms that you have no case for a refund. It's made quite clear when submitting a chargeback claim that it can be challenged and reversed within 40 days.

knitwearmodel

Thanks for your replies. 
The point being the government said DON'T travel. HSBC gave the money back to Ryan air as they said we were a no show - that we didn't notify them. We did.  
There is a blog article on the resolver website - which this forum will not allow me to post a link to. 
The article is - Why air lines should be playing fair to customers now and how you can act. - Specifically the section :
Stuck between losing your money – or breaking the rules

eskbanker

knitwearmodel said:

The point being the government said DON'T travel. HSBC gave the money back to Ryan air as they said we were a no show - that we didn't notify them. We did.

This may be a bit of a red herring - if the flight went ahead then the travelling party would be regarded as 'no shows' whether or not contact was made with the airline in advance, i.e. notification wouldn't actually have made any difference.

knitwearmodel said:

There is a blog article on the resolver website - which this forum will not allow me to post a link to. 
The article is - Why air lines should be playing fair to customers now and how you can act. - Specifically the section :
Stuck between losing your money – or breaking the rules

The article concerned is https://news.resolver.co.uk/why-airlines-should-be-playing-fair-to-customers-now-and-how-you-can-act/

However, it's just an opinion piece essentially expressing the view that it would be better for consumers if airlines refunded in such circumstances, while recognising that there is currently no legal obligation on them to do so.

bagand96

There have been thousands in the situation your father and family found themselves in.  Flight bookings for flights that operated, but there were impractical quarantine restrictions on return and/or Government advice was not to travel.

Many airlines introduced flexible options allowing passengers to move bookings, or take credit notes.  Ryanair's own policy was that they would waive their change fee to move the booking into the future.  Granted, that wasn't an option for your father.  But nearly all airlines have stuck with the line that if the flight operated, then there's no right to a refund.  As suggested, it may have been a valid insurance claim depending on cover.

There has been much discussion in the industry and press about how fair this is for consumers.  The Competition and Markets Authority have been quite vocal on this matter.  But as of now no Government or trade body has forced airlines to refund, so this is mainly opinion and conjecture.  The CMA (and others) talk of frustrated contracts, but you would likely need to start legal action against Ryanair, which won't be easy.  Or wait for someone else to do so and make a test case, which may open the floodgates.

CMA's opinion: Statement on coronavirus (COVID-19), consumer contracts, cancellation and refunds - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

Sorry for your loss, and I know it doesn't make it any easier with your father feeling so strongly about it.

knitwearmodel

Thanks for your reply. 
My dad did feel strongly - in fact, I can't share the expletives as I am sure I would be reported!! 
I have a lot to do in administering the estate and can well do without this - especially as Ryanair seem to be extremely obstructive.
I just wanted to seek opinion from those in the know before I decided to give this the effort it will need in order to fight it. 
Thanks again

macman

knitwearmodel said:

Thanks for your replies. 
The point being the government said DON'T travel. HSBC gave the money back to Ryan air as they said we were a no show - that we didn't notify them. We did.  
There is a blog article on the resolver website - which this forum will not allow me to post a link to. 
The article is - Why air lines should be playing fair to customers now and how you can act. - Specifically the section :
Stuck between losing your money – or breaking the rules

No they didn't. The advice, however strongly put, was purely advisory. You were free to travel.
Whether you notified them or not, you wouldn't get your money back unless the tickets were refundable. They weren't.
Unfair-quite possibly. Illegal, no.
If you feel strongly about it then you are of course free to make a civil claim on behalf of the estate against Ryanair. Small Claims UK will probably not apply in this case as Ryanair are registered in Eire, not the UK. There appears to be a similar process there, with a limit of €2000. Let us know how you get on.
Edit: upon further reading, it seems that you cannot use the Eire small claims procedure, as both parties must be resident in the Republic. And of course you can no longer, post Brexit, use the European Small Claims procedure either. If you cannot use the UK courts, then you would have to finance this by appointing a lawyer in Eire to handle it  through the appropriate civil court. I know little of Irish law, but I don't doubt that, should you lose, the estate would have to pay the defendant's costs in addition to your own, and you can be sure that O'Leary's lawyers do not come cheap. It's really not a good idea.

Pollycat

eskbanker said:

The article concerned is https://news.resolver.co.uk/why-airlines-should-be-playing-fair-to-customers-now-and-how-you-can-act/

However, it's just an opinion piece essentially expressing the view that it would be better for consumers if airlines refunded in such circumstances, while recognising that there is currently no legal obligation on them to do so.

This ^^^^.

I think you need to decide whether this is worth all the effort it's going to take, in addition to dealing with your Dad's estate.

Sorry for your loss.

Thrugelmir

The purpose of the trip has no relevance. The party decided not to travel. The flight flew.  RyanAir incurred their normal operational costs.  No Show is the black and white outcome.

RyanAir would go bust if refunds for no shows became a precedent. 

jon81uk

Did your Dad have travel insurance?