Boeing 737 Max - can I avoid travelling on one?

Supersonos

It might be an extreme reaction, but I don't want to find myself sitting on a 737 Max, even though they've now been cleared to fly in the UK, US etc.

But is it possible to stop it happening?  When booking a flight, there's no way of knowing what the plane will be.  Even avoiding airlines that use the 737 Max doesn't stop a leased one being used for my particular flight.

Ganga

I do not know the answer to your question but i also would not feel safe flying on one at the present time ( i know we cannot travel at the present time ) if they fly for 12 months or so with no problems maybe ok BUT at this time no no.

Retiredwelshman

Go to the Flightradar website.
Pop in your flight details - they have details of all the planes currently flying on there.

silvercar

I feel your pain. There is always a risk of a substitution, I would suspect that if you phoned up an airline (other than the low cost carriers) and pleaded your case they may move you to another flight.
I’ve flown on a 737 Max, brand new aircraft, lovely flight, 2 days before they were withdrawn from service. The thought of what could have happened makes me nervous to get back on one.

tacpot12

You can find out what type of aircraft should be used for any flight you book, but you are right you can't prevent a substitution, and you wouldn't be able to insure against it, so the only way to guarantee that you won't have to travel on a 737 MAX is not to travel or to book on a flight that wouldn't normally use a 737 MAX, then refuse to board if a 737 MAX is at the gate.

bagand96

I'm sure at least one of the big US airlines has said that they will allow passengers to change their travel plans if they want to avoid a 737 MAX.  I'm guessing that means moving reservations that are scheduled to be a MAX, not sure how they'd handle a last minute aircraft swap.

Haven't heard of anything in the UK/Europe though, and I doubt they would over here.  The only practical way to do it at the moment would be to avoid the airlines that operate it, which in the UK is TUI and Ryanair (although neither have them in active service at the moment - TUI's are grounded and Ryanair haven't had any delivered yet).

Obviously you can never completely eliminate the chance due to leases etc but the chances of that would be incredibly small for the next couple of years I would think.  Refusing to board at the gate would mean forfeiting your ticket.

I'm astounded Boeing hasn't made a bigger effort to bury the MAX branding.  Same goes for the airlines, although Ryanair's MAXs have had paint adjustments whilst sat on the ground in the US.

IvanOpinion

Just a thought ... given the scrutiny that these planes have had and the amount of testing they have had to undergo, could you not argue that the likelihood is that they are one of the safest planes?

Sandtree

IvanOpinion said:

Just a thought ... given the scrutiny that these planes have had and the amount of testing they have had to undergo, could you not argue that the likelihood is that they are one of the safest planes?

Regulators tested the plane and certified it, that certification process failed to identify the risk that if a sensor failed the plane would crash itself and 346 people died as a consequence. 

From what has been stated in the press much of the certification process is self certification, you just provide the regulators with evidence the tests have been done and passed and you fly your passengers a few weeks later. To the best of my knowledge no one has alleged that the test results were faked/interfered with but simply they were insufficient to consider the consequences of the failure of that part.

So 20 months on the regulators have said its passed the tests again so can be safe to fly... whats changed in the tests to ensure there isnt another design flaw which would have similar consequences if a random component failed? Sure you can be fairly sure this ones been patched but others? There's been no fanfare to say any regulator has made wholesale changes to their certification process to avoid any future oversights. 

With such limited numbers of companies making commercial passenger planes the regulators are also in a difficult position if they choose not to authorise models. 

bagand96

Sandtree said:

IvanOpinion said:

Just a thought ... given the scrutiny that these planes have had and the amount of testing they have had to undergo, could you not argue that the likelihood is that they are one of the safest planes?

So 20 months on the regulators have said its passed the tests again so can be safe to fly... whats changed in the tests to ensure there isnt another design flaw which would have similar consequences if a random component failed? Sure you can be fairly sure this ones been patched but others? There's been no fanfare to say any regulator has made wholesale changes to their certification process to avoid any future oversights. 

With such limited numbers of companies making commercial passenger planes the regulators are also in a difficult position if they choose not to authorise models. 

A number of commercial aircraft (including older models of the 737) have entered service with unknown inherent flaws or weaknesses that become apparent later in service.  It's rare for a worldwide grounding, but again the 737 MAX isn't the first there either.

That's not excusing the situation with the MAX.  The way Boeing and the FAA behaved is a scandal and a tragedy.  But with that said, given the accidents, the grounding, and indeed the coverage of the situation, the MAX is one of the most scrutinised aircraft ever to fly.
 
Another difference with it's return to service is that worldwide regulators have not just accepted the US FAA's Airworthiness Certification.  Canada, Brazil, Europe and China have all demanded their own involvement and issued their own certifications.

Murphy_The_Cat

This is a great series to watch

Although for some people, they'd never fly again

martindow

It's an awful story and has parallels with Grenfell Tower.  When you take away independent inspection and testing to allow companies to certify products themselves, financial pressures lead to short-cuts or falsification of documents and ultimately tragic results.

One hopes that after this, inspection regimes will be much more active in overseeing and checking what is going on at Boeing and elsewhere.