18mo after moving into new build, told our garden fence temporary, will now lose 31.5msq

Ditzy_Mitzy

Do you have anything that confirms the measurements, in terms of feet and inches, of the 'plot plan'?  If not this is all speculation.  

moneymattersnatter

Ditzy_Mitzy said:

Do you have anything that confirms the measurements, in terms of feet and inches, of the 'plot plan'?  If not this is all speculation.  

If you're not going to read my posts, please can you jog on?
Thanks anyway, but your comments are really not helpful and I don't appreciate your tone. 

davidmcn

moneymattersnatter said:

Ditzy_Mitzy said:

Do you have anything that confirms the measurements, in terms of feet and inches, of the 'plot plan'?  If not this is all speculation.  

If you're not going to read my posts, please can you jog on?
Thanks anyway, but your comments are really not helpful and I don't appreciate your tone. 

I think you're misinterpreting the tone. You need to figure out what (if any) discrepancy there actually is - which means scaling up the deed plan to see what you've legally got, and going out with a measuring tape to see where the fence actually is.

Niv

That's not a temp fence imo.

princeofpounds

argh wrote a long post and lost it when the computer crashed

On point I wanted to make is that you should post at Gardenlaw Boundaries forum - it's a less active board than here but even more specialist. 

OP, there are basically two separate issues here.

1) Where is the actual boundary? Look at your title plan and the title plan of the property next to it. Most likely it is a general boundary, which means the lines on the plan help identify a physical boundary marker - you do not measure the plan and scale up, it doesn't work that way. The line on a title plan is probably not far off 40cm thick in the real world, so it will be hard for the developer to take your land using that as a basis. It's possible given it is the border of two development sites that it has been a determined (measured) boundary, but that should have been picked up in conveyancing so unlikely.

The fence has not been there long enough to be unchallengeable, but in the absence of other evidence it would be a starting point. Who put the fence in? How long has it been there? Have there been other historic boundary markers? Any old plans or satellite photos of them? 

The development plan is only indirectly related to this. It does not in itself define a boundary, though it make be evidence of historic intentions to form a boundary at a particular point. So don't let them kid you that because they submitted certain dimensions on the planning that means they own that land. You can get planning to put houses in the garden of Buckingham Palace in theory, doesn't mean you own it.

2) The next question is what you were actually sold. This relates back to the first issue - if the boundary is in the right place, then the first developer has nothing to answer for. If the boundary turns out to be in the wrong place, then you have to go back and look at what you were sold and how it was defined, both on the plans and in terms of who laid out the physical boundaries. 

Do go back and consult with your original conveyancer, but do not expect them to be useful, given they were allied with the developer. They will probably just refer you back to your original documents and try to give you the brush-off, and generally try to keep the developer out of it. You should probably consult with an independent boundary specialist; it will cost a bit, though you may get some information and guidance for free. But it would be money well-spent if the developer tries to make a move. They do have a history of using the bulldozer first and cleaning up the legals second, so I would be pro-active about this. It's good that you have photos - you should take measurements too. And in all your dealings with them, you should 100% assert your ownership, given your registered title with the land registry and the integrity of the fence, unless you get to a point where the evidence clearly disproves your assertion.

Ditzy_Mitzy

moneymattersnatter said:

Ditzy_Mitzy said:

Do you have anything that confirms the measurements, in terms of feet and inches, of the 'plot plan'?  If not this is all speculation.  

If you're not going to read my posts, please can you jog on?
Thanks anyway, but your comments are really not helpful and I don't appreciate your tone. 

If you wish to take offence to a completely innocuous comment, made with the best intentions and intended to be helpful, then please do.  It's your prerogative.  I shall indeed jog on and comment no more on the other builder taking a fence.  

ciderboy2009

davidmcn said:

moneymattersnatter said:

Ditzy_Mitzy said:

Do you have anything that confirms the measurements, in terms of feet and inches, of the 'plot plan'?  If not this is all speculation.  

If you're not going to read my posts, please can you jog on?
Thanks anyway, but your comments are really not helpful and I don't appreciate your tone. 

I think you're misinterpreting the tone. You need to figure out what (if any) discrepancy there actually is - which means scaling up the deed plan to see what you've legally got, and going out with a measuring tape to see where the fence actually is.

The problem with attempting to do this is that those deed plans aren't detailed enough to identify a discrepancy of 40cm - when scaled up the drawn boundary line will probably cover more than that.

At the end of the day it's the developers who had the scale drawings and put the fence in.  Personally, I feel that the back part of the fence is clearly not temporary.  I think the front part could be though - mainly due to the fact that it already appears to be moving a bit as it's not straight.

Having said that, I think that the developers are just trying it on - if it came to it then surely they can just build the house a bit smaller!

davidmcn

ciderboy2009 said:

davidmcn said:

moneymattersnatter said:

Ditzy_Mitzy said:

Do you have anything that confirms the measurements, in terms of feet and inches, of the 'plot plan'?  If not this is all speculation.  

If you're not going to read my posts, please can you jog on?
Thanks anyway, but your comments are really not helpful and I don't appreciate your tone. 

I think you're misinterpreting the tone. You need to figure out what (if any) discrepancy there actually is - which means scaling up the deed plan to see what you've legally got, and going out with a measuring tape to see where the fence actually is.

The problem with attempting to do this is that those deed plans aren't detailed enough to identify a discrepancy of 40cm - when scaled up the drawn boundary line will probably cover more than that.

As I said above, I realise that - but the photos provided give us even less to go on.

moneymattersnatter

davidmcn said:

moneymattersnatter said:

Ditzy_Mitzy said:

Do you have anything that confirms the measurements, in terms of feet and inches, of the 'plot plan'?  If not this is all speculation.  

If you're not going to read my posts, please can you jog on?
Thanks anyway, but your comments are really not helpful and I don't appreciate your tone. 

I think you're misinterpreting the tone. You need to figure out what (if any) discrepancy there actually is - which means scaling up the deed plan to see what you've legally got, and going out with a measuring tape to see where the fence actually is.

Thanks, it's just I've already responded to this poster, and whereas others seem to be reading about my position, this one doesn't seem to be taking into consideration what I've said.  I have explained that this is difficult and triggering my PTSD, so hand holding and encouragement is warmly received. When I've said I'm still looking for LR docs, I mean it.  I'll hopefully update with them all ASAP. ☺️

pinkteapot

You can download your title plan from the Land Registry for £3, if you can't find it in your paperwork. You would have received it when they registered your house, which with a new-build can take quite a while, but if you've been in 18 months you should have had it by now. 

https://eservices.landregistry.gov.uk/eservices/FindAProperty/view/QuickEnquiryInit.do

It's the Title Plan you want. 

Be warned though - they're not to scale and based on your photos it's unlikely to confirm whether a fence line is in the wrong place when the dispute is over 40cm. It'll show the shape of your plot (e.g. if any of your boundaries have a bend in them) and where it is in relation to surrounding features. 

The advice to make use of the Gardenlaw Boundaries forum is excellent. 

And I'm afraid MSE doesn't really do hand-holding and hugs. You may need to use Mumsnet for that and MSE/GardenLaw for specific advice, but you'll need to be prepared to answer detailed questions because the information is needed for people to help you. 

Glad to hear your Home Legal cover is helping you though.