UPDATE - RESOLVED: Possible charges after Brexit

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Sandtree said:

davidmcn said:

The terms for sales on the website appear to be these:
https://www.suunto.com/en-gb/Support/Suunto-Webshop/Sales-Terms-and-Conditions/
which states you are dealing with a UK company (Amer Sports UK Limited).

But they state its shipped from Finland... a UK company doesnt have to ship from the UK

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

If the goods are under £135 then the retailer should be collecting VAT at the point of sale and the goods enter the UK without any additional charges.

Regarding information, the EU directive on Unfair Commercial Practices contains a pretty comprehensive list of actions that may be considered misleading should they alter the economic activity of the average consumer. 

The website details Finnish law applies and it could be argued not expressly stating where goods are shipped from if they come from a territory other than where the goods have been marketed to the consumer then failing to expressly define this to the consumer could be misleading. 

As the EU was able to ensure all websites have cookie warnings you'd think they'd be able to ensure all websites have clearer data about where goods are shipped from and what law governs the sale as it is obviously an important aspect for the consumer and we have generally moved on from having to read the small print to find essential information. 

The OP stated they bought it before NYE and therefore the new HMRC rules were not in place at that time.

Its also very clear in the FAQ that the items come from Finland

Before the 1st of Jan we had free trade and after VAT collection at the point of sale so if under £135 it should clear without issue.

They say orders were shipped on the 5th due to new Brexit regulations implying they comply with them so should enter the UK without charge if under £135 and OP may well have to pay duty if over. 

I agree this company is making it clearer than most, a notice at Checkout along side shipping options and costs would be the clearest way to give the info surrounding country of dispatch to the consumer. 

Sandtree

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Before the 1st of Jan we had free trade and after VAT collection at the point of sale so if under £135 it should clear without issue.

They say orders were shipped on the 5th due to new Brexit regulations implying they comply with them so should enter the UK without charge if under £135 and OP may well have to pay duty if over. 

And this is the problem that many people are falling foul of where the point of sale was under one set of regulations and the point of dispatch is under a different set of regulations.

Under the old regime Finish sales tax would potentially have applied and as an item coming from the EU no UK VAT would have been added.

Looking at a UK customs declaration form CN22 that you would use if you were sending goods worth £135 or less from the UK to Finland there is no location to state either the transaction date nor what taxes have been charged to date. It therefore begs the question how the customs people or their agents are supposed to know what regime the point of sale was made under or whats been paid to date etc and so its no wonder that on here and in the news etc there are lots of problems happening with sales that span the change.

WonkeyDonkey

UPDATE...

thanks all for your comments. I failed to mention that the parcel hadn’t arrived, despite UPS having it for the last 14 days. The threat of charges was made during a FB message exchange with them, although they couldn’t tell me what the charges would be. 

I can announce *fanfare* that the parcel has arrived with no demand for charges, tax or duties, although it appears to be badly squashed. The UPS guy just ran the doorbell, dropped in the doorstep and ran off. 

finalfantasist

WonkeyDonkey said:

UPDATE...

thanks all for your comments. I failed to mention that the parcel hadn’t arrived, despite UPS having it for the last 14 days. The threat of charges was made during a FB message exchange with them, although they couldn’t tell me what the charges would be. 

I can announce *fanfare* that the parcel has arrived with no demand for charges, tax or duties, although it appears to be badly squashed. The UPS guy just ran the doorbell, dropped in the doorstep and ran off. 

Not to rain on your parade, but it's not unheard of with courier companies for a letter to arrive some weeks later asking for duty/VAT/fees.

Aylesbury_Duck

WonkeyDonkey said:

UPDATE...

thanks all for your comments. I failed to mention that the parcel hadn’t arrived, despite UPS having it for the last 14 days. The threat of charges was made during a FB message exchange with them, although they couldn’t tell me what the charges would be. 

I can announce *fanfare* that the parcel has arrived with no demand for charges, tax or duties, although it appears to be badly squashed. The UPS guy just ran the doorbell, dropped in the doorstep and ran off. 

Thanks for the update, but don't count your chickens.  If UPS had to pay any charges to get it into the UK, they will pass those onto you, and that might take some time to get through admin.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Sandtree said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Before the 1st of Jan we had free trade and after VAT collection at the point of sale so if under £135 it should clear without issue.

They say orders were shipped on the 5th due to new Brexit regulations implying they comply with them so should enter the UK without charge if under £135 and OP may well have to pay duty if over. 

And this is the problem that many people are falling foul of where the point of sale was under one set of regulations and the point of dispatch is under a different set of regulations.

Under the old regime Finish sales tax would potentially have applied and as an item coming from the EU no UK VAT would have been added.

Looking at a UK customs declaration form CN22 that you would use if you were sending goods worth £135 or less from the UK to Finland there is no location to state either the transaction date nor what taxes have been charged to date. It therefore begs the question how the customs people or their agents are supposed to know what regime the point of sale was made under or whats been paid to date etc and so its no wonder that on here and in the news etc there are lots of problems happening with sales that span the change.

I think goods from Europe (excluding stuff like tobacco) would have come to the UK free of changes before the 1st of Jan 2021.

There are 2 issues, roughly a two week gap covering the last 2 weeks of Dec where people may have ordered goods over £135 and they get with customs if it passes through after the 1st of Jan.

Other issue is goods under £135 where the VAT hasn't been collected at the point of sale, I touched on this in another thread, customs can't inspect every parcel and a balance is needed between cost of collection and how much will be collected.

For VAT collected at the point of sale after the 1st of Jan it's likely the retailers who will face the consequences of not doing so and goods marked as under £135 will flow through freely. That's my theory at least until we hear of someone getting charges on goods under £135 from outside the UK. 

Sandtree

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Other issue is goods under £135 where the VAT hasn't been collected at the point of sale, I touched on this in another thread, customs can't inspect every parcel and a balance is needed between cost of collection and how much will be collected.

For VAT collected at the point of sale after the 1st of Jan it's likely the retailers who will face the consequences of not doing so and goods marked as under £135 will flow through freely. That's my theory at least until we hear of someone getting charges on goods under £135 from outside the UK. 

The issues are also:

1) Who's VAT has been collected... an item ordered before 1st Jan from Finland had it gone out the door before year end would have had Finish VAT charged but not UK VAT charged. Importing it into the UK after 1st Jan would require UK VAT to be paid but in theory that has been done by the vendor

2) Declaration forms havent been changed at all so there is no statement there on if the vendor is claiming to have collected UK VAT or not so no opportunity to identify those that simply don't know about the silly new rules of some island off the coast of Europe which they send 1% of parcels to

As to Cost of Collection -v- Amount Collected... well thats the beauty of the old system as for these types of parcels the couriers did the work and so HMRC costs are tiny as they just need to audit the couriers on occasions and deal with their occasional mistakes. Couriers were reimbursed by the recipient. 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Sandtree said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Other issue is goods under £135 where the VAT hasn't been collected at the point of sale, I touched on this in another thread, customs can't inspect every parcel and a balance is needed between cost of collection and how much will be collected.

For VAT collected at the point of sale after the 1st of Jan it's likely the retailers who will face the consequences of not doing so and goods marked as under £135 will flow through freely. That's my theory at least until we hear of someone getting charges on goods under £135 from outside the UK. 

The issues are also:

1) Who's VAT has been collected... an item ordered before 1st Jan from Finland had it gone out the door before year end would have had Finish VAT charged but not UK VAT charged. Importing it into the UK after 1st Jan would require UK VAT to be paid but in theory that has been done by the vendor

2) Declaration forms havent been changed at all so there is no statement there on if the vendor is claiming to have collected UK VAT or not so no opportunity to identify those that simply don't know about the silly new rules of some island off the coast of Europe which they send 1% of parcels to

As to Cost of Collection -v- Amount Collected... well thats the beauty of the old system as for these types of parcels the couriers did the work and so HMRC costs are tiny as they just need to audit the couriers on occasions and deal with their occasional mistakes. Couriers were reimbursed by the recipient. 

1) I have no idea, as far as the consumer goes really the only thing to concern them is whether they get hit with customs upon import. 

2) It will apply to the whole of the EU from July so they'd better brush up! 

I don't think there is much that can be put on a customs form, eBay have unique codes in address for customs (at least they did for Australia which requests 10% tax is collected by marketplaces) but what's to stop someone using another company's code? Same issue with displaying a VAT number on the parcel. 

Regarding the tax you have to consider that HMRC are now getting 20% of everything, previously they had LVCR allowing goods under £15 to travel freely regardless of where they were shipped from which was massively abused to the determent of UK companies. 

More VAT collected and more trade with UK businesses (as the sellers in China, USA, Switzerland, etc on marketplaces have had their advantage slimmed) should mean more tax for the UK government even if a few places don't bother to register and pay UK VAT when selling to UK consumers. 

Unless you ask the government or someone says they got hit with customs on sub a £135 order I guess we'll never know what the actual answer is as to what they are doing.