Website asking for further payment to insure parcel?

theonlywayisup

sparrow857 said:

I’ve received some further info tonight advising that this company have now been receiving really harassing messages since my post.

That is not something I wanted at all, I only wanted to know where I stood with regard to the purchase. I’m not sure how I delete this
post? As think it’s went a bit far now and no matter what, I wouldn’t want to see a business struggle because of me ☹️

It isn't your fault that the company have had messages (assuming that's true).  
As has been pointed out, you have done them a favour by pointing out their terms were unlawful.  The best thing they could do is put their house in order and hopefully this thread will show that a company sometimes tries to get things right but when it doesn't it takes immediate steps to rectify it. 
There is no reason they cannot add the costs of insurance to the product or postage price, that's what normal businesses do.  What you cannot do is take payment and then decide you want more and even then relinquish responsibility for a sale when the law requires you otherwise.   What they are doing is very wrong. 

If this business struggles it won't be because of you. 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

macman said:
 if their courier is really saying that 'all deliveries are now made at the sender's risk', which is nonsensical, then they need to find a new courier. 

Pretty much most, if not all, couriers say the parcel is at the sender's risk and then charge extra for "parcel cover" one way or another.  

Many will also exclude glass from compensation, particularly for damages.

A retailer is perfectly entitled to charge the consumer extra for higher value orders, whether that is to cover extra costs incurred or to put the pennies in a pot to effectively self insure. 

A decent website will allow the cart to automatically adjust the postage charges depending upon the order weight or value which is obviously the easiest way for both parties to complete a transaction.

Even places offering free postage will be factoring their overheads into the price of the goods. 

What they can't do is tell the consumer goods are sent at their risk. 



One other thing to add, the OP mentioned tax is added at the basket but from a quick test I don't think it is, 

www.candlewizards.com/yankee-candle-large-2-wick-tumbler-vanilla-lime.html.html

£22.75 plus £3.99 delivery correctly totals £26.74 in the basket, it's simply that the basket gives a tax breakdown with VAT correctly shown at £4.46.

The only issue is the cart shows the net product prices but gross shipping prices, the calculation is still correct, just the way it's presented is a bit off but I've seen a good number of websites do this for some reason. 

theonlywayisup

Interesting on the VAT aspect, I cannot find a VAT number on their website, even in the cached version of T&C they mention VAT.

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:qKfOUC55mzwJ:https://www.candlewizards.com/candle-wizards-terms-and-conditions+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=safari

Prices

Prices and availability of items are subject to change without notice the prices advertised on this site are for orders placed and include VAT and delivery.

Op, do you have a VAT number on your invoice/receipt?

Tokmon

sparrow857 said:

I’ve received some further info tonight advising that this company have now been receiving really harassing messages since my post.

That is not something I wanted at all, I only wanted to know where I stood with regard to the purchase. I’m not sure how I delete this
post? As think it’s went a bit far now and no matter what, I wouldn’t want to see a business struggle because of me ☹️

Have they asked you to delete your post on here? Personally i wouldn't trust what they are saying is true because it seems you have gotten their backs up because you have pointed out they are carrying out their business illegally and now they have seen this thread they are making up reasons to get you to delete it. All they need to do is carry out their business within the law and nobody can make any complaints but instead they almost seem to be harassing you and trying to make you feel bad to delete this thread. It's not your fault that you needed help with a consumer rights issues due to them acting illegally.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

theonlywayisup said:

Interesting on the VAT aspect, I cannot find a VAT number on their website, even in the cached version of T&C they mention VAT.

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:qKfOUC55mzwJ:https://www.candlewizards.com/candle-wizards-terms-and-conditions+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=safari

Prices

Prices and availability of items are subject to change without notice the prices advertised on this site are for orders placed and include VAT and delivery.

Op, do you have a VAT number on your invoice/receipt?

Is there an obligation to provide a VAT number or a VAT invoice? 

davidmcn

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

theonlywayisup said:

Interesting on the VAT aspect, I cannot find a VAT number on their website, even in the cached version of T&C they mention VAT.

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:qKfOUC55mzwJ:https://www.candlewizards.com/candle-wizards-terms-and-conditions+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=safari

Prices

Prices and availability of items are subject to change without notice the prices advertised on this site are for orders placed and include VAT and delivery.

Op, do you have a VAT number on your invoice/receipt?

Is there an obligation to provide a VAT number or a VAT invoice? 

Only if you're selling to another VAT-registered entity, which you're entitled to presume you're not in a consumer transaction.

theonlywayisup

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

theonlywayisup said:

Interesting on the VAT aspect, I cannot find a VAT number on their website, even in the cached version of T&C they mention VAT.

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:qKfOUC55mzwJ:https://www.candlewizards.com/candle-wizards-terms-and-conditions+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=safari

Prices

Prices and availability of items are subject to change without notice the prices advertised on this site are for orders placed and include VAT and delivery.

Op, do you have a VAT number on your invoice/receipt?

Is there an obligation to provide a VAT number or a VAT invoice? 

davidmcn said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

theonlywayisup said:

Interesting on the VAT aspect, I cannot find a VAT number on their website, even in the cached version of T&C they mention VAT.

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:qKfOUC55mzwJ:https://www.candlewizards.com/candle-wizards-terms-and-conditions+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=safari

Prices

Prices and availability of items are subject to change without notice the prices advertised on this site are for orders placed and include VAT and delivery.

Op, do you have a VAT number on your invoice/receipt?

Is there an obligation to provide a VAT number or a VAT invoice? 

Only if you're selling to another VAT-registered entity, which you're entitled to presume you're not in a consumer transaction.

It is a requirement.
https://www.gov.uk/online-and-distance-selling-for-businesses/online-selling
The page is out of date apropos Brexit changes on trading,  but not in relation to the list of what we require in the UK (AFAIK).

Before an order is placed

You must:

• make it clear to customers they have to pay when they place an order (for example, a ‘pay now’ button)
• display clearly how customers can pay and include delivery options and costs
• list the steps involved in a customer placing an order
• take reasonable steps to let customers correct errors in their order
• let customers know what languages are available
• make sure customers can store and reproduce your terms and conditions, for example these can be downloaded and printed off
• give your email address
• give your VAT number (if your business is registered for VAT)
• give the cost of using phone lines or other communication to complete the contract where it will cost more than the basic rate
• give a description of your goods, services or digital content - include as much information as you can
• give the total price or how this will be calculated
• give the total delivery cost or how this will be calculated
• tell them the minimum length of their contract
• give any conditions for ending rolling contracts or contracts with no clear end date

davidmcn

theonlywayisup said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

theonlywayisup said:

Interesting on the VAT aspect, I cannot find a VAT number on their website, even in the cached version of T&C they mention VAT.

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:qKfOUC55mzwJ:https://www.candlewizards.com/candle-wizards-terms-and-conditions+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=safari

Prices

Prices and availability of items are subject to change without notice the prices advertised on this site are for orders placed and include VAT and delivery.

Op, do you have a VAT number on your invoice/receipt?

Is there an obligation to provide a VAT number or a VAT invoice? 

davidmcn said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

theonlywayisup said:

Interesting on the VAT aspect, I cannot find a VAT number on their website, even in the cached version of T&C they mention VAT.

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:qKfOUC55mzwJ:https://www.candlewizards.com/candle-wizards-terms-and-conditions+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=safari

Prices

Prices and availability of items are subject to change without notice the prices advertised on this site are for orders placed and include VAT and delivery.

Op, do you have a VAT number on your invoice/receipt?

Is there an obligation to provide a VAT number or a VAT invoice? 

Only if you're selling to another VAT-registered entity, which you're entitled to presume you're not in a consumer transaction.

It is a requirement.
https://www.gov.uk/online-and-distance-selling-for-businesses/online-selling
The page is out of date apropos Brexit changes on trading,  but not in relation to the list of what we require in the UK (AFAIK).

Before an order is placed

You must:

• make it clear to customers they have to pay when they place an order (for example, a ‘pay now’ button)
• display clearly how customers can pay and include delivery options and costs
• list the steps involved in a customer placing an order
• take reasonable steps to let customers correct errors in their order
• let customers know what languages are available
• make sure customers can store and reproduce your terms and conditions, for example these can be downloaded and printed off
• give your email address
• give your VAT number (if your business is registered for VAT)
• give the cost of using phone lines or other communication to complete the contract where it will cost more than the basic rate
• give a description of your goods, services or digital content - include as much information as you can
• give the total price or how this will be calculated
• give the total delivery cost or how this will be calculated
• tell them the minimum length of their contract
• give any conditions for ending rolling contracts or contracts with no clear end date

I'm reasonably sure I've checked this before and it's not accurate (as with various other bits of advice, even if they are on .gov websites). Or to put it another way, why would a customer who wasn't intending to reclaim the VAT be interested in your VAT number?

PragmaticMoneySaver

davidmcn said:

theonlywayisup said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

theonlywayisup said:

Interesting on the VAT aspect, I cannot find a VAT number on their website, even in the cached version of T&C they mention VAT.

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:qKfOUC55mzwJ:https://www.candlewizards.com/candle-wizards-terms-and-conditions+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=safari

Prices

Prices and availability of items are subject to change without notice the prices advertised on this site are for orders placed and include VAT and delivery.

Op, do you have a VAT number on your invoice/receipt?

Is there an obligation to provide a VAT number or a VAT invoice? 

davidmcn said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

theonlywayisup said:

Interesting on the VAT aspect, I cannot find a VAT number on their website, even in the cached version of T&C they mention VAT.

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:qKfOUC55mzwJ:https://www.candlewizards.com/candle-wizards-terms-and-conditions+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=safari

Prices

Prices and availability of items are subject to change without notice the prices advertised on this site are for orders placed and include VAT and delivery.

Op, do you have a VAT number on your invoice/receipt?

Is there an obligation to provide a VAT number or a VAT invoice? 

Only if you're selling to another VAT-registered entity, which you're entitled to presume you're not in a consumer transaction.

It is a requirement.
https://www.gov.uk/online-and-distance-selling-for-businesses/online-selling
The page is out of date apropos Brexit changes on trading,  but not in relation to the list of what we require in the UK (AFAIK).

Before an order is placed

You must:

• make it clear to customers they have to pay when they place an order (for example, a ‘pay now’ button)
• display clearly how customers can pay and include delivery options and costs
• list the steps involved in a customer placing an order
• take reasonable steps to let customers correct errors in their order
• let customers know what languages are available
• make sure customers can store and reproduce your terms and conditions, for example these can be downloaded and printed off
• give your email address
• give your VAT number (if your business is registered for VAT)
• give the cost of using phone lines or other communication to complete the contract where it will cost more than the basic rate
• give a description of your goods, services or digital content - include as much information as you can
• give the total price or how this will be calculated
• give the total delivery cost or how this will be calculated
• tell them the minimum length of their contract
• give any conditions for ending rolling contracts or contracts with no clear end date

I'm reasonably sure I've checked this before and it's not accurate (as with various other bits of advice, even if they are on .gov websites). Or to put it another way, why would a customer who wasn't intending to reclaim the VAT be interested in your VAT number?

For me, I'd like to know so that I know they are not fraudulently charging me VAT when they do not then pass this onto HMRC

theonlywayisup

davidmcn said:

theonlywayisup said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

theonlywayisup said:

Interesting on the VAT aspect, I cannot find a VAT number on their website, even in the cached version of T&C they mention VAT.

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:qKfOUC55mzwJ:https://www.candlewizards.com/candle-wizards-terms-and-conditions+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=safari

Prices

Prices and availability of items are subject to change without notice the prices advertised on this site are for orders placed and include VAT and delivery.

Op, do you have a VAT number on your invoice/receipt?

Is there an obligation to provide a VAT number or a VAT invoice? 

davidmcn said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

theonlywayisup said:

Interesting on the VAT aspect, I cannot find a VAT number on their website, even in the cached version of T&C they mention VAT.

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:qKfOUC55mzwJ:https://www.candlewizards.com/candle-wizards-terms-and-conditions+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=safari

Prices

Prices and availability of items are subject to change without notice the prices advertised on this site are for orders placed and include VAT and delivery.

Op, do you have a VAT number on your invoice/receipt?

Is there an obligation to provide a VAT number or a VAT invoice? 

Only if you're selling to another VAT-registered entity, which you're entitled to presume you're not in a consumer transaction.

It is a requirement.
https://www.gov.uk/online-and-distance-selling-for-businesses/online-selling
The page is out of date apropos Brexit changes on trading,  but not in relation to the list of what we require in the UK (AFAIK).

Before an order is placed

You must:

• make it clear to customers they have to pay when they place an order (for example, a ‘pay now’ button)
• display clearly how customers can pay and include delivery options and costs
• list the steps involved in a customer placing an order
• take reasonable steps to let customers correct errors in their order
• let customers know what languages are available
• make sure customers can store and reproduce your terms and conditions, for example these can be downloaded and printed off
• give your email address
• give your VAT number (if your business is registered for VAT)
• give the cost of using phone lines or other communication to complete the contract where it will cost more than the basic rate
• give a description of your goods, services or digital content - include as much information as you can
• give the total price or how this will be calculated
• give the total delivery cost or how this will be calculated
• tell them the minimum length of their contract
• give any conditions for ending rolling contracts or contracts with no clear end date

I'm reasonably sure I've checked this before and it's not accurate (as with various other bits of advice, even if they are on .gov websites). Or to put it another way, why would a customer who wasn't intending to reclaim the VAT be interested in your VAT number?

I'm a director of a Vat registered business and I use those rules.  Until I'm given anything to the contrary of course.