We have taken Jet2 to court over refusing refund of holiday deposit - and won

JJC1956

eskbanker said:

JJC1956 said:

Am I missing something here, usually holiday companies will book you into another hotel with like for like facilities to meet their obligations to the passengers. Did this not happen in this case? Or is the OP holding back some of the information.
I talked to Jet2 last summer whilst my friend was sitting next to me, and asked them why on 2 occasions they had told him that everything was OK with his holiday when I knew that his hotel was closed, they were going to tell him at the airport on arrival, that there was a change of hotel, which in this case wasn’t going to suit him. If Jet2 were aware of building issues at the OP’s hotel surely they would offer alternative accommodation. Keeping everybody happy (well almost everybody).

You seem to have missed the situation that it wasn't anything to do with 'building issues' but Covid-related unavailability of certain facilities.  Therefore, the chances are that other hotels in the vicinity would also have been in the same position, but the point is that, by unilaterally pulling the plug three months in advance, OP is unlikely to have given Jet2 the opportunity to offer alternatives and so Jet2 are regarding it as a customer-initiated cancellation.

CKhalvashi said:

The full legislation is here, apologies, I should have linked it when mentioning specific legislation without going into further details.

Perhaps a bit pedantic and there's unlikely to be any significant difference (if any at all), but that link goes to a draft, the enacted legislation itself is at https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2018/634/contents/made

Who mentioned ‘Building Issues’ not me?
None of this makes sense, why would Jet2 not offer alternative accommodation, unless there is only one Hotel at the destination of which nobody but the OP knows where they are going. Either Jet2 are extremely stupid in not offering alternative accommodation, Voucher, Refund etc or the OP is holding back info.
Personally I back the OP in this case as Jet2 should be more flexible during the Pandemic, irrespective of whether the OP is fed reams of legislation by various posts. 

JJC1956

eskbanker said:

stoem said:

eskbanker said:

You seem to have missed the situation that it wasn't anything to do with 'building issues' but Covid-related unavailability of certain facilities.  Therefore, the chances are that other hotels in the vicinity would also have been in the same position, but the point is that, by unilaterally pulling the plug three months in advance, OP is unlikely to have given Jet2 the opportunity to offer alternatives and so Jet2 are regarding it as a customer-initiated cancellation.

The reason I cancelled at that time (having phoned them once before already enquiring about our options) was that the full balance for the holiday was due. Given the stance they took during the call it was clear that it would be wise for me to argue with them over the deposit than over the entire £3.5k.  
No alternative accommodation or holiday was offered, nor was a free transfer of the deposit to another holiday.

Yes, I understand why you did what you did but was just highlighting that there are two sides to every story, so it doesn't do any harm to recognise the strengths and weaknesses of the other one when you're looking at going legal, rather than believing that you have a completely watertight case that can't fail.

As I said right at the start, the crux of the debate is likely to be whether or not the unavailability of some facilities constitutes a significant change in terms of the PTRs - you obviously contend that this is the case and that it would still be so several months later, so assert that Jet2 should have told you about them and given you the option of a refund of what you'd paid.

Their case would seem to be that the change wasn't significant (in the context of the primary characteristics listed in schedule 1 of the PTRs) and/or that it was too early to have that conversation - bear in mind that most holiday companies were only planning a week or two ahead last summer when reviewing bookings in a fast-changing environment, so there was no chance they'd be offering alternative arrangements in July for an October booking for a hotel that was still due to be open (but they'd reserve the right to do so if applicable closer to departure).

It sounds like they probably advised you of this line of thinking when you discussed the situation with them on the phone, so it should have been clear that they wouldn't (willingly) agree that you were entitled to a refund of your deposit, so it'll come down to a court's interpretation of PTRs schedule 1, and in particular the 'main features' of the accommodation as per paragraph 5....

Apologies, sorry I meant issues within the building not ‘building issues’ 

eskbanker

JJC1956 said:

None of this makes sense, why would Jet2 not offer alternative accommodation, unless there is only one Hotel at the destination of which nobody but the OP knows where they are going. Either Jet2 are extremely stupid in not offering alternative accommodation, Voucher, Refund etc or the OP is holding back info.

I'm not sure if you're replying to posts sequentially without reading subsequent ones but you do still seem to be missing the point!  We don't know for sure why Jet2 wouldn't offer alternative accommodation but IMHO it was highly likely to be either that they didn't consider the suspended facilities to constitute a significant change in terms of the PTRs (i.e. they didn't accept any obligation to offer an alternative) and/or they weren't prepared to commit to a decision three months in advance, on the basis that the wider situation was changing daily (i.e. there was no guarantee that the facilities would still be unavailable later in the year, despite what the hotel were apparently saying) and they'd have been focusing their efforts on those departing within the next week or two.

Posters in OP's position (of being reluctant to pay the residual balance of a holiday while doubting it'll go ahead as planned several months later) are always advised on here to abide by the agreed payment schedule in order to avoid breaching the contract, even if they feel that the supplier might (later) breach it themselves.  Some less scrupulous holiday companies have been quite blatant in their attempts to engineer customers cancelling of their own accord, as this often does effectively let the supplier off the hook.

JJC1956 said:

Personally I back the OP in this case as Jet2 should be more flexible during the Pandemic, irrespective of whether the OP is fed reams of legislation by various posts. 

You may not be interested in legislation but it's kinda important for those embarking on legal action, which needs something rather more concrete than vague notions about what a company ought to do in an ideal world, so there is clearly a need to understand the Ts & Cs of the contract, as well as the overarching laws and regulations.  Having said that, I should add that I'm not actually taking sides as such and can see both angles, so it'll be interesting to see what happens when/if it reaches court....

JJC1956

eskbanker said:

JJC1956 said:

None of this makes sense, why would Jet2 not offer alternative accommodation, unless there is only one Hotel at the destination of which nobody but the OP knows where they are going. Either Jet2 are extremely stupid in not offering alternative accommodation, Voucher, Refund etc or the OP is holding back info.

I'm not sure if you're replying to posts sequentially without reading subsequent ones but you do still seem to be missing the point!  We don't know for sure why Jet2 wouldn't offer alternative accommodation but IMHO it was highly likely to be either that they didn't consider the suspended facilities to constitute a significant change in terms of the PTRs (i.e. they didn't accept any obligation to offer an alternative) and/or they weren't prepared to commit to a decision three months in advance, on the basis that the wider situation was changing daily (i.e. there was no guarantee that the facilities would still be unavailable later in the year, despite what the hotel were apparently saying) and they'd have been focusing their efforts on those departing within the next week or two.

Posters in OP's position (of being reluctant to pay the residual balance of a holiday while doubting it'll go ahead as planned several months later) are always advised on here to abide by the agreed payment schedule in order to avoid breaching the contract, even if they feel that the supplier might (later) breach it themselves.  Some less scrupulous holiday companies have been quite blatant in their attempts to engineer customers cancelling of their own accord, as this often does effectively let the supplier off the hook.

JJC1956 said:

Personally I back the OP in this case as Jet2 should be more flexible during the Pandemic, irrespective of whether the OP is fed reams of legislation by various posts. 

You may not be interested in legislation but it's kinda important for those embarking on legal action, which needs something rather more concrete than vague notions about what a company ought to do in an ideal world, so there is clearly a need to understand the Ts & Cs of the contract, as well as the overarching laws and regulations.  Having said that, I should add that I'm not actually taking sides as such and can see both angles, so it'll be interesting to see what happens when/if it reaches court....

So will I 🧐

niktheguru

Posters in OP's position (of being reluctant to pay the residual balance of a holiday while doubting it'll go ahead as planned several months later) are always advised on here to abide by the agreed payment schedule in order to avoid breaching the contract, even if they feel that the supplier might (later) breach it themselves.  Some less scrupulous holiday companies have been quite blatant in their attempts to engineer customers cancelling of their own accord, as this often does effectively let the supplier off the hook.

This is easier said than done. Not everyone is prepared to pay a full balance knowing full well that the majority of these tour operators will do everything in their power to delay or not pay refunds (regardless of what the legislation is.....just look at lastminute.com) In my opinion the OP was very wise in cancelling their holiday before the final payment was required. Yes by voluntarily cancelling she may be breaching the T&Cs but he/she is using their home insurance legal team to contest it, so in the end even if they lose will only be out of pocket of £300....far better than being without £3500 for up to a year and having to fight tooth and nail to get it back!

eskbanker

niktheguru said:

Posters in OP's position (of being reluctant to pay the residual balance of a holiday while doubting it'll go ahead as planned several months later) are always advised on here to abide by the agreed payment schedule in order to avoid breaching the contract, even if they feel that the supplier might (later) breach it themselves.  Some less scrupulous holiday companies have been quite blatant in their attempts to engineer customers cancelling of their own accord, as this often does effectively let the supplier off the hook.

This is easier said than done. Not everyone is prepared to pay a full balance knowing full well that the majority of these tour operators will do everything in their power to delay or not pay refunds (regardless of what the legislation is.....just look at lastminute.com) In my opinion the OP was very wise in cancelling their holiday before the final payment was required. Yes by voluntarily cancelling she may be breaching the T&Cs but he/she is using their home insurance legal team to contest it, so in the end even if they lose will only be out of pocket of £300....far better than being without £3500 for up to a year and having to fight tooth and nail to get it back!

True, the relative costs will be a factor when deciding which way to jump, as will the company's reputation - Jet2 Holidays actually came out on top when MSE polled travellers about refunds last year, so it's not necessarily about perceptions of 'the majority': https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/2020/02/coronavirus-travel-help-and-your-rights/#accordion-content-01930263336-0

bagand96

niktheguru said:

Posters in OP's position (of being reluctant to pay the residual balance of a holiday while doubting it'll go ahead as planned several months later) are always advised on here to abide by the agreed payment schedule in order to avoid breaching the contract, even if they feel that the supplier might (later) breach it themselves.  Some less scrupulous holiday companies have been quite blatant in their attempts to engineer customers cancelling of their own accord, as this often does effectively let the supplier off the hook.

This is easier said than done. Not everyone is prepared to pay a full balance knowing full well that the majority of these tour operators will do everything in their power to delay or not pay refunds (regardless of what the legislation is.....just look at lastminute.com) In my opinion the OP was very wise in cancelling their holiday before the final payment was required. Yes by voluntarily cancelling she may be breaching the T&Cs but he/she is using their home insurance legal team to contest it, so in the end even if they lose will only be out of pocket of £300....far better than being without £3500 for up to a year and having to fight tooth and nail to get it back!

Putting Jet2 holidays in the same bracket as Lastminute.com is a bit of a stretch!

I wouldn't even call Lastminute.com a tour operator. 

phillw

niktheguru said:
Not everyone is prepared to pay a full balance knowing full well that the majority of these tour operators will do everything in their power to delay or not pay refunds (regardless of what the legislation is.....

When you're playing chicken with a tour operator then blinking first puts you at a disadvantage.
Of course you can't predict the outcome, so there are no easy answers.

niktheguru

phillw said:

niktheguru said:
Not everyone is prepared to pay a full balance knowing full well that the majority of these tour operators will do everything in their power to delay or not pay refunds (regardless of what the legislation is.....

When you're playing chicken with a tour operator then blinking first puts you at a disadvantage.
Of course you can't predict the outcome, so there are no easy answers.

whilst i'd agree with you if it was worth say £500, i personally wouldnt take the risk at 3-4k, having seen how long it takes to get refunds (and been on the receiving end too, waiting over a year)

phillw

niktheguru said:
whilst i'd agree with you if it was worth say £500, i personally wouldnt take the risk at 3-4k, having seen how long it takes to get refunds (and been on the receiving end too, waiting over a year)

I would want to make sure that I was rock solid on getting the money back from the insurer or credit card company if the tour operator tried to get out of it before paying it.