Furlough ?

theshed

Not sure where to direct this query so hopefully someone here could advise.
I work for a medium to large manufacturing company, employing about 2500 on the site I work. And around 30,000 nationwide.
Some years back 'our' union made an agreement on our behalf, without a vote. This allowed the company to 'stand us down' in times of low production and we would be paid. Then when production was up we would have to work back those hours, being paid standard rate for what would have been overtime. This was known as corridor hours.
Then when furloughed the company paid us 100% base pay, no consultation with employees. On our pay slip at the time this was also listed as corridor hours. When questioned back then the explanation was it was the only way to input it on the system..
Now when production is increasing we are paying back 100% of the hours not the 20% the company paid us. When questioned the union stewards response was don't worry about it. It is that many hours you will never have to pay them all back ! Not really the point !
Should our employer be able to claim from us 80% of what really is Gov't money ?
If the system was a precept to repay the Country then maybe but this seems like profiteering to me.

adamp87

Seems like you need to look through these agreements & have a proper conversation with a union rep.

If you were on furlough and you haven’t signed anything about going on it or being reduced I’m not sure how they can claim anything back.

Jeremy535897

In pre-coronavirus days you were paid 100% standard rate to do no work sometimes, but a record was kept and so when you worked overtime, you were paid standard rate for those hours not overtime rate. What was overtime rate? Unless it was more than twice standard rate, you were still ahead?

In coronavirus days you were paid 100% standard rate on furlough, up to 80% being funded by CJRS. Now if you work overtime you are paid standard rate rather than overtime rate. You are in the same position as pre-coronavirus.

If this agreement had not been made, presumably you would have been paid 80% of standard rate while furloughed, and overtime rate for any overtime worked now. You would not be asking the question you have asked. I don't think there is any "profiteering" here.

theshed

adamp87 said:

Seems like you need to look through these agreements & have a proper conversation with a union rep.

If you were on furlough and you haven’t signed anything about going on it or being reduced I’m not sure how they can claim anything back.

Exactly. No agreement mentions 'pandemic' so how can they use that for us to pay back ours ?

Grumpy_chap

You work for a large company, so they are really likely to have got things correct.
Are you certain the company actually used the furlough scheme?  Or did they just use the "corridor hours" scheme that was pre-established?

There was a recent thread where someone mentioned being on furlough (M-F) normal hours, but then being asked to work overtime (evening and weekend).  That would, of course, be an abuse of the furlough scheme.  Similarly, if you were on furlough during May and then worked the hours back in January, that would also not be correct.

What does the Union Rep say about it?

unholyangel

theshed said:

adamp87 said:

Seems like you need to look through these agreements & have a proper conversation with a union rep.

If you were on furlough and you haven’t signed anything about going on it or being reduced I’m not sure how they can claim anything back.

Exactly. No agreement mentions 'pandemic' so how can they use that for us to pay back ours ?

Is it possible your employer isn't claiming under CJRS? 

theshed

Jeremy535897 said:

In pre-coronavirus days you were paid 100% standard rate to do no work sometimes, but a record was kept and so when you worked overtime, you were paid standard rate for those hours not overtime rate. What was overtime rate? Unless it was more than twice standard rate, you were still ahead?

In coronavirus days you were paid 100% standard rate on furlough, up to 80% being funded by CJRS. Now if you work overtime you are paid standard rate rather than overtime rate. You are in the same position as pre-coronavirus.

If this agreement had not been made, presumably you would have been paid 80% of standard rate while furloughed, and overtime rate for any overtime worked now. You would not be asking the question you have asked. I don't think there is any "profiteering" here.

You say no profiteering, yet the company claimed 80% of our wage from the Gov't whilst the workforce payback 100% of the hours. Surely if anything they should be repaying the Gov't, like many shops repaid rate reductions ? 
Given the choice the majority would have taken the 80% but it was not an option.
Because we have already been paid for these hours this 'overtime' is compulsory. Very few exceptions.
But I still cannot understand how taxpayers will be paying for my furlough whilst the company has me pay them back ?
This is not about money. 80% would have been fine, time with family is worth more than overtime pay.
20% of pay does not equal 100% of hours !          

theshed

Grumpy_chap said:

You work for a large company, so they are really likely to have got things correct.
Are you certain the company actually used the furlough scheme?  Or did they just use the "corridor hours" scheme that was pre-established?

There was a recent thread where someone mentioned being on furlough (M-F) normal hours, but then being asked to work overtime (evening and weekend).  That would, of course, be an abuse of the furlough scheme.  Similarly, if you were on furlough during May and then worked the hours back in January, that would also not be correct.

What does the Union Rep say about it?

Union not very helpful, which I am afraid is normal business.
Not sure how they can invoke a 'pandemic clause' but if it was the 20% of hours fine. Not 100%

theshed

You would hope such a large company would play by the rules but I am not so sure.
Unfortunately nothing is very clear and no real explanation is given.

Grumpy_chap

theshed said:

the company claimed 80% of our wage from the Gov't 

Do you absolutely know this?
If they did not, and you were simply on the standard "corridor hours" that the business uses as standard, then that's that.
It is unlikely that a company with 30k employees would get this that wrong.

Jeremy535897

Perhaps I am misunderstanding things, but I thought that you were paid 100% on furlough (20% more than most), and now you will be paid 100% instead of overtime rate (you haven't said what this is) for overtime, and 100% for standard hours worked. It would have to be more than 120% for the company to gain anything in comparison with any other business that paid 80% to furloughed employees and recovered it from the government, instead of making them redundant.