Self-employment grant 4 announcement won't happen till March

Jeremy535897

mags21 said:

If you have claimed legitimately within the guidance I’m sure you have nothing to worry about. I have claimed the first 2 SEISS grants but do not qualify for the 3rd. As these grants are public money I welcome any scrutinising of the payments.

The National Audit Office have done a report on the schemes, read or scroll to page 44 to begin reading about fraud and error.

https://www.nao.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Implementing-employment-support-schemes-in-response-to-the-COVID-19-pandemic.pdf
This from page 59: 

Post‐payment compliance

3.29 HMRC has set out how it intends to deal with potential non-compliance post-payment. For CJRS, it has set up an approach which gives it multiple opportunities to recover overpayments (Figure 19). HMRC has already made three arrests in relation to suspected CJRS fraud. For SEISS, work commenced in October 2020 targeting the highest risk areas using a similar campaign approach to CJRS. Further SEISS risks will be considered as part of the compliance checks on the 2020-21 Self Assessment tax returns that will be due by January 2022.

That work was to email people who claimed SEISS but then submitted tax returns showing they had ceased to trade, thus clearly breaching one of the basic criteria. They were easy to identify.

strandedwonderer

as stated before,,all that stock that sold in two weeks was purchased by a LOAN... I PAID THAT BACK......then had a bit of money left over  "PROFIT",,,, this was before me or the rest of the country even knew about SEIS,,,, as far as i was concerned,, I couldnt get any stock,, my income came to a stand stilll,, the seis happend and SAVED everything!!!! during the time of the third seis,,,payment the money was used for morgage, bills,, living costs and also the purchase of more stock as again no money was coming in,, i was affected at that point in time,,,, "like the rules state"

just like now,, I have ordred and paid the deposit for more stock, proffit left over from previois sales will be going towards the rest of that order along wiht import duties as well as the 4th seis grant,, or else I dont have enought to cover it! im doing what i can to stay afloat, and the stock  probably wont arrive for another 2 0r 3 months!!!! so for now no in come.,..mortgage to pay,,,,bills to pay,,, food to buy,,,,, = 100's and 100's  & AFFECTED by the times!!! SEIS REALLY IS THERE TO HELP... not be ridiculed!!!

sheramber

So you have invested all your profit in new stock without allowing for living costs or tax and a NIC that you will have to pay on your annual profit when you submit your tax return for 1920/21.

poppy12345

strandedwonderer said:

 for the first time in 9 years I think I my proffits may of toppled over the £50k,

This doesn't sound anything like you've been adversely affected at all.

Grumpy_chap

strandedwonderer said:

as stated before,,all that stock that sold in two weeks was purchased by a LOAN... I PAID THAT BACK......then had a bit of money left over  "PROFIT",,,, this was before me or the rest of the country even knew about SEIS,,,, as far as i was concerned,, I couldnt get any stock,, my income came to a stand stilll,, the seis happend and SAVED everything!!!! during the time of the third seis,,,payment the money was used for morgage, bills,, living costs and also the purchase of more stock as again no money was coming in,, i was affected at that point in time,,,, "like the rules state"

just like now,, I have ordred and paid the deposit for more stock, proffit left over from previois sales will be going towards the rest of that order along wiht import duties as well as the 4th seis grant,, or else I dont have enought to cover it! im doing what i can to stay afloat, and the stock  probably wont arrive for another 2 0r 3 months!!!! so for now no in come.,..mortgage to pay,,,,bills to pay,,, food to buy,,,,, = 100's and 100's  & AFFECTED by the times!!! SEIS REALLY IS THERE TO HELP... not be ridiculed!!!

You really are making me quite grumpy

SEISS is there to help those sole traders that have been adversely affected by COVID.  It is not simply free money handed out to those whose business has boomed because of COVID. 
SEISS 1 & 2 had generous definitions of "adversely affected", although even then it is not wholly obvious that your business was so affected. 
SEISS 3 had a very specific requirement for an impact to activity, capacity, demand because of COVID plus a significant reduction to profits across the basis period.  From what you have said, this is definitely not the case.
SEISS 4 is not yet available and the eligibility criteria are not yet announced.  Despite this, you seem to be of the fixed position that you will claim regardless.

While SEISS 1 & 2 may be open to greater interpretation, the advice given in this thread relating to SEISS 3 (&4) is entirely consistent.  Regardless, you remain steadfast in your view that the SEISS 3 (&4) are rightfully yours.  Claiming incorrectly could have serious negative consequences if there is an investigation and I would not want to be facing that if I were in your shoes.  High levels of inappropriate claims also jeopardises the SEISS scheme for those that genuinely need this support.

Given that you will not take on board any comments from those in this thread, please do consult and listen to your Accountant and take heed of their professional advice.  At the same time, please seek guidance on the appropriate means of obtaining business finance to support the growth of your business.

poppy12345

strandedwonderer said:

 SEIS REALLY IS THERE TO HELP... not be ridiculed!!!

Yes.. exactly.

strandedwonderer

February to April Zero income coming in,,,,,,,,unable to trade due to corona virus-------mortages, bills, food living expenses -----7k deposit tied up in china...... what is the seis grant for ? do I stop trading, lose my deposit and claim universal credit ? or use the grant for the help its inteded for ?  as i have always paid tax early in the previous 9 years! this to me is what the grant is for...

Grumpy_chap

strandedwonderer said:

February to April Zero income coming in,,,,,,,,unable to trade due to corona virus-------mortages, bills, food living expenses -----7k deposit tied up in china...... what is the seis grant for ? do I stop trading, lose my deposit and claim universal credit ? or use the grant for the help its inteded for ?  as i have always paid tax early in the previous 9 years! this to me is what the grant is for...

Your sense of entitlement is truly outstanding.  
As is your total failure to understand the rules of SEISS and your blatant willingness to act outwith the rules.

poppy12345

You have 7K tied up in China, your profits topped 50k, yet you have no income.. am i missing something here?

GrumpyDil

Sorry but I am with everyone else here. Your issue is not reduced trade because of Coranavirus. It is simply lack of proper cash flow. Whatever the wording of the grants they were intended to help businesses through the hard times caused by this pandemic. I can't see anything in your posts that suggest you had reduced trade etc caused by the pandemic but rather increased trade which you did not have the finances in place to manage.
Remember that the tax payer will be paying for the cost of the pandemic for years to come so so I for one think you should have been looking at business loans not the grants.