Freehold/leasehold help needed on Land Registry details

Sianbez

Interested in buying a house so downloaded title deeds info from Land registry but am a bit confused as it has freehold and leasehold details.
Not sure if the current owner (who has passed away so I presume family may be dealing with sale) had bought the freehold completely or whether parts of the leasehold still affect the property and whether it's a serious issue?
The owner is named under Title absolute which I presume means they own freehold
I've copied the bits that confused me and removed the identifying names.
Just want to know if this is something to be concerned about before I start getting too serious as this is a house I will probably put an offer in for

1. 2       (13.01.2000) The land has the benefit of the rights granted by but is
          subject to the rights reserved by the Conveyance dated 26 November 1999
          referred to in the Charges Register.
   

2. 3       (13.01.2000) The Conveyance dated 26 November 1999 referred to above
          contains a provision as to light or air.
   

Under charges it says

13.01.2000) Lease dated 8 February 1967 to *unknown person
       for 99 years from 25 December 1964.

2      (13.01.2000) A Conveyance of the land in this title dated 26 November
       1999 made between (1) * Estates Limited and (2) *current owner
    contains restrictive covenants.

       NOTE: Original filed.

princeofpounds

There's nothing too unusual about this.
 
It means that the property has both freehold title, and a leasehold title underneath that. What the vendor is selling you may be just the leasehold, with the freehold owned by a third party. Or, they may own and be selling you both. Even if they own both, they may not have been able to merge the titles back into a single title. Usually that's because there may be an obligation to a third party in the lease - which should be evident in the lease - or perhaps they just never bothered. In very rare cases, they may own the freehold but not the leasehold - that would be a defective title and a problem for them; it's highly unlikely.

You can tell who the registered owner for each title is (it's not the names in the title deed, which will usually be historic, it's the name linked to the title by the land registry). And of course you can also ask the vendor why there is a leasehold and freehold title, and if they own both why they are not merged.

One further thing you should query. It looks like a 99yr lease was granted from 1964. If you are just being sold the leasehold, and then the remaining lease is just 42yrs. That is a 'short' lease and the property would not be mortgageable. If you are being sold the freehold and leasehold together, not a problem.

Title absolute just means that there is effectively no doubt about who legally owns the land from the point of view of documentation. There are weaker forms of title that land can be held by. It's not important in this instance.

You solicitor will of course review all of this - it's one of their primary roles. But no harm in checking the basics beforehand.

greatcrested

It may be worrying.

I assume that what you have quoted is from the Freehold Title?

The Charges regiser makes clear that there ie a 99 year lease, from 1964 to 2963.

Have you also downloaded the leasehold Title? What does that show? Does it show the owner of the lease? I assume not since the freehold Charges register says "unknown person'.

If the owner o the lease is the same person as the owner of the freehold, then fine, you buy both and (if you can be bothered) desolve the lease.

But if you are buying the freehold only, and the leasehold owner is 'unknown', what will you do if/when Mr Bloggs turns up saying: "Oi! I own a lease on this property till 2963. What are you doing living in my house? Get out!" and produces the origina lease proving this?

The owner is named under Title absolute which I presume means they own freehold

No. Again I assume you have taken this from the freehold title. 'Title Absolute' means they own the freehold absolutely, as opposed to there being any doubt about the accuracy of their ownership (compare 'possessory title' of the freehold). It is nothing to do with whether there is also a leasehold title.

Alter_ego

greatcrested said:

It may be worrying.

I assume that what you have quoted is from the Freehold Title?

The Charges regiser makes clear that there ie a 99 year lease, from 1964 to 2963.

You need to check your maths!

greatcrested

Never my strong point, especially after a pint or two! See my post here:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/77991868#Comment_77991868

!!!!!!!!!!!

Sianbez

Thanks for all your replies.Yes all of the above was from the Freehold title.
Sorry the unknown person is named on the document,just didn't want to put their name online and isn't known to me,and I mean by that it's not a family member of the person who owned the house as far as I'm aware.
The leasehold title has these details below,again I've removed names and put owner for the current(deceased) owner of the property and unknown persons for the people named on leasehold elements that aren't the owner or a member of their family.
And thank you again for helping me try to understand this.It will of course by checked by a solicitor if we put an offer on the house but good to understand these things first if possible

A: Property Register / Cofrestr eiddo

This register describes the land and estate comprised in
the title. Except as mentioned below, the title includes
any legal easements granted by the registered lease but
is subject to any rights that it reserves, so far as
those easements and rights exist and benefit or affect
the registered land.

1. 1       (27.02.1976) The Leasehold land shown edged with red on the plan 
   

2. 2       The mines and minerals and ancillary powers of winning and working them
          excepted by the lease are excluded from this registration.
   

3. 3       Short particulars of the lease(s) (or under-lease(s)) under which the
          land is held:
   

       Date        : 8 February 1967
       Term        : 99 years from 25 December 1964
       Rent        : £18.18s.0d
       Parties     : (1) unknown (Estate Management) Limited

                     (2) unknown

1. 4       There are excepted from the effect of registration all estates, rights,
          interests, powers and remedies arising upon, or by reason of, any
          dealing made in breach of the prohibition or restriction against
          dealings therewith inter vivos contained in the lease.
   

2. 5       Unless otherwise mentioned the title includes any legal easements
          granted by the registered lease(s) but is subject to any rights that it
          reserves, so far as those easements and rights exist and benefit or
          affect the registered land.

   B: Proprietorship Register / Cofrestr
   Perchnogaeth
   

   This register specifies the class of title and
   identifies the owner. It contains any entries that
   affect the right of disposal.

   Title good leasehold/Teitl prydlesol da
   

   1      (28.10.1999) PROPRIETOR: current owner
   

Sianbez

There's also some slightly wrong calculations above,the lease is 99 years so 2063 rather than 2963,those pints going down well greatcrested😂

Sianbez

Anyone had a chance to look at the leasehold details above yet?
Does the Title good leasehold mean the current owner has bought/owns the leasehold as well as the freehold?
Thanks,
Sian

davidmcn

Sianbez said:

Anyone had a chance to look at the leasehold details above yet?
Does the Title good leasehold mean the current owner has bought/owns the leasehold as well as the freehold?

If they're the proprietor of the leasehold then that means they own the leasehold.

If they're the proprietor of the freehold then that means they also own the freehold.

Sianbez

Thank you,it's what I suspected but wasn't sure with all the legal language if I was understanding it correctly.
Thanks to everyone for their input

fastbs

Sianbez said:

Anyone had a chance to look at the leasehold details above yet?
Does the Title good leasehold mean the current owner has bought/owns the leasehold as well as the freehold?
Thanks,
Sian

Our house that we are due to exchange on has the exact same titles - both leasehold and freehold owned by the current owners and leasehold states ‘good leasehold’ title and freehold title states ‘title absolute’. 

Our contract states we are purchasing ‘all that freehold’ which is where I am confused now as unsure whether is should state the leasehold too, obviously we don’t want the lease to still be present. However, both title numbers are on the contract for both the freehold and leasehold.

We have asked our solicitor if this is going to cause any problems etc. and are waiting for a reply, however going off what I’ve read online (I know it’s not all accurate), this is quite common and the lease will either be merged with the freehold or dissolved after purchase.