Second transferor

poppystar

Land_Registry said:

poppystar said:

Five months down the line and with no sign of the probate office even looking at my application let alone granting probate I need to appoint a second transferor for the sale. There is no family who can do this so I have to ‘sell’ the task to a friend. There is no problem finding someone willing but I want to ensure they (and I) know what they are taking on. What are the rights and responsibilities? Are there any potential liabilities? How to find the best person for the task? Thanks.

Can you clarify how the property is registered and what has actually happened to the owner(s) please? 

I’ve read a few of your threads and think it was in joint names of parents but Mum died, triggering a few posts, and I think Dad has now died as well hence probate being applied for? - profuse apologies if wrong 

Yes, that’s correct. M died five years ago. Title changed to reflect the IPDI in her will. Now in names of D and myself, obviously with restriction. D died last year and probate applied for but not yet granted. 

poppystar

Savvy_Sue said:

If the solicitor cannot explain to your satisfaction why they can't act in this capacity, is there another person in the firm who can?

If not, do you have a local law centre/ trade union membership / legal cover with your house insurance / Which membership / SOMETHING which will let you ask a question in principle to get to the bottom of this.

Unless there is something interesting about your late father's interests and the 'situation? 

Yes, I shall escalate it with the solicitors firm I just wanted to see if I was missing something before I did. If, for example, it really did have to be someone who knew my father, was a blood relation (good luck with that one!) or whatever. 

No, nothing interesting in the circumstances, just a standard IPDI. Even if there was the solicitors wouldn’t know since they’ve asked no questions and not requested to see either Will. 

Land_Registry

poppystar said:

Land_Registry said:

poppystar said:

Five months down the line and with no sign of the probate office even looking at my application let alone granting probate I need to appoint a second transferor for the sale. There is no family who can do this so I have to ‘sell’ the task to a friend. There is no problem finding someone willing but I want to ensure they (and I) know what they are taking on. What are the rights and responsibilities? Are there any potential liabilities? How to find the best person for the task? Thanks.

Can you clarify how the property is registered and what has actually happened to the owner(s) please? 

I’ve read a few of your threads and think it was in joint names of parents but Mum died, triggering a few posts, and I think Dad has now died as well hence probate being applied for? - profuse apologies if wrong 

Yes, that’s correct. M died five years ago. Title changed to reflect the IPDI in her will. Now in names of D and myself, obviously with restriction. D died last year and probate applied for but not yet granted. 

Understood. So why are you applying for probate? The legal ownership, jointly owned by you and D, has passed to you so the property doesn’t form part of D’s estate. 

The form A restricts you as a sole owner so you can appoint someone to act as a co trustee although I’d refer you to the GOV.UK guidance section 6 re how that can be done - I’ve not heard of the co trustee having to be anyone specific such as family 
But I think you’ve posted that you are the beneficiary of D so you are in effect the sole beneficial owner now as well. If so then you could, as an alternative apply for the form A to be cancelled - see our Practice Guide 6 section 7 (final paragraph explains how it applies to your situation also)

poppystar

Land_Registry said:

poppystar said:

Land_Registry said:

poppystar said:

Five months down the line and with no sign of the probate office even looking at my application let alone granting probate I need to appoint a second transferor for the sale. There is no family who can do this so I have to ‘sell’ the task to a friend. There is no problem finding someone willing but I want to ensure they (and I) know what they are taking on. What are the rights and responsibilities? Are there any potential liabilities? How to find the best person for the task? Thanks.

Can you clarify how the property is registered and what has actually happened to the owner(s) please? 

I’ve read a few of your threads and think it was in joint names of parents but Mum died, triggering a few posts, and I think Dad has now died as well hence probate being applied for? - profuse apologies if wrong 

Yes, that’s correct. M died five years ago. Title changed to reflect the IPDI in her will. Now in names of D and myself, obviously with restriction. D died last year and probate applied for but not yet granted. 

Understood. So why are you applying for probate? The legal ownership, jointly owned by you and D, has passed to you so the property doesn’t form part of D’s estate. 

I needed probate anyway for other assets but the impression I was given was that conveyancing would be smoother with probate. Maybe I read too much into that but I was led to believe that this was because with probate the second trustee route would not be  needed? 

The form A restricts you as a sole owner so you can appoint someone to act as a co trustee although I’d refer you to the GOV.UK guidance section 6 re how that can be done - I’ve not heard of the co trustee having to be anyone specific such as family 

I could see no reference to this having to be family hence why I sought confirmation on here.

But I think you’ve posted that you are the beneficiary of D so you are in effect the sole beneficial owner now as well. If so then you could, as an alternative apply for the form A to be cancelled - see our Practice Guide 6 section 7 (final paragraph explains how it applies to your situation also)

That is correct. So as I read it you are saying there is another way to get the restriction cancelled that would not require a second trustee? Is this also able to be done when the conveyancing is done or is this something I should already have carried out? Ie have I left it too late to go down this route?

I know this is all a learning curve for me and apologies if it takes a while to get to fully understand. It does concern me though that this information, particularly, the latter alternative was raised by none of the solicitors I approached despite my being very clear about the situation.

Land_Registry

Probate is required in order to deal with a deceased’s estate. I’m unsure what ‘smoother’ means here but in the context of the property you either need it or you don’t. And you don’t if one of the registered owners is alive, which you are. 

Similarly it’s not needed IF you need to deal with the trust/form A restriction put in place to protect the beneficial split. That’s why you can appoint anyone to be a co trustee and then transfer/sell. It’s quite logical and perhaps sensible to appoint someone who is aware of what’s involved or has an interest but it’s not essential from a registration point of view. It may be smoother I guess in other ways but equally it could be rougher. 

The alternative, whereby you are the beneficiary of D’s beneficial share, is to follow the linked guidance re a statement of truth re the facts needed to confirm that. A buyer may be happy to accept that and lodge it plus RX3 with their own application to register but in my experience most would ask you to apply and cancel the form A yourself and then transfer/sell. 

If you’ve got to the point where you hav3 all agreed on appointing a co trustee as part of the transfer then it might be quicker to stick to that now but iron out the solicitor’s issue over it having to be a family member- that’s their call/legal advice 
Note - I’ll add here what I normally share re the difference between the legal ownership, which we register and can’t be split, and beneficial ownership which is often linked to your wills/trusts
For legal ownership think land, building, bricks and mortar - those can’t be split so you have half a kitchen , bathroom and garden for example. Hence always transferred as a whole
For beneficial ownership think value, £s and pence, of the land, building, bricks and mortar. That can be split 50/50 and when you sell you usually do it for £s and pence, and that’s what appointing a co-trustee assists with as it enables you to comply with the form A restriction and allows you to then divvy up the £s and pence according to the agreed split. But if you are getting both shares of the split then you don’t need a co trustee. You just need to show that you are entitled to it all.