Second transferor

poppystar

Five months down the line and with no sign of the probate office even looking at my application let alone granting probate I need to appoint a second transferor for the sale. There is no family who can do this so I have to ‘sell’ the task to a friend. There is no problem finding someone willing but I want to ensure they (and I) know what they are taking on. What are the rights and responsibilities? Are there any potential liabilities? How to find the best person for the task? Thanks.

xylophone

https://www.land-registry-documents.co.uk/information/joint-ownership-tennants/

The circumstances are as detailed in above under 

Death of a Joint Proprietor ?

getmore4less

Who get the beneficial interest in the property that was covered by the restriction?

The main liability for the extra appointed trustee is they are responsible to make sure the beneficial interest goes to the right person.

I don't think(would have to check) there is anything stopping your solicitor being the second trustee

poppystar

getmore4less said:

Who get the beneficial interest in the property that was covered by the restriction?

The main liability for the extra appointed trustee is they are responsible to make sure the beneficial interest goes to the right person.

I don't think(would have to check) there is anything stopping your solicitor being the second trustee

The surviving tenant in common is sole beneficiary of the estate of the deceased - I think that answers the first question?

I’m a little concerned following the link from @xylophone post where it says “receives the sale proceeds jointly” and also “paid to two or more trustees” means that the second transferor would have to have half of the proceeds paid to them to then distribute. I was assuming it was just a signing exercise and checking that the Will does say the surviving tenant in common is due the money rather than they would actually have half the money paid to them.

I had hoped the solicitor would have acted as the second transferor but this was not suggested in any discussion. That would have also given peace of mind as presumably the money could be then laid into their client account. The solicitor instead recommended a family member and didn’t quite seem to get that it was possible not to have any close ones either relationally or geographically. Hence my asking a friend and hence wanting to know what I was letting them and myself in for.

xylophone

That would have also given peace of mind as presumably the money could be then laid into their client account.

Surely the sale proceeds will be paid to the solicitor acting for you in the sale?

He would then hold them in his client account until you and your friend instruct him as to where payment should be made?

poppystar

xylophone said:

That would have also given peace of mind as presumably the money could be then laid into their client account.

Surely the sale proceeds will be paid to the solicitor acting for you in the sale?

He would then hold them in his client account until you and your friend instruct him as to where payment should be made?

Yes, of course the money will initially go into the client account now you mention it. Thank you - I think my brain is wearing out after the last months! The solicitor has my bank details and I’d been expecting the full amount, less their fees, to go straight into it. I was therefore worried that they would pay myself and the second transferor half each when I read that link. I trust my friend but wouldn’t want to hand such a large sum of money directly to them! 

So am I correct in thinking that the second transferor would sign something effectively confirming the death and that they are acting on behalf of the deceased pre sale and then after the sale will then sign something saying they are happy to direct that half of the proceeds to me? 

I feel the need to be clear in my own mind how things will go as well as to explain to friend. The solicitor will have left the firm before I complete and as it is a small firm it will be in the hands of an experienced conveyancer but not a solicitor and someone who has probably not done this before either I’m told.

Best case scenario would be probate office coming up trumps in next month but I can’t rely on that it seems!

xylophone

You are the sole surviving tenant in common.
From link-
To get past this restriction and sell the property, the sole surviving tenant in common can appoint a second trustee along with himself. This can be done either in the transfer or by a separate deed. The trustee then signs the transfer along with the proprietor and receives the sale proceeds jointly. It is then the responsibility of the trustee together with the surviving tenant in common to ensure that the beneficiaries receive their share. As long as the purchase money is paid to two or more trustees the purchaser is protected from any claim that the beneficiaries might have if they do not receive the money they are entitled to.


The proceeds are paid to the client account.  As far as I can see, you and the Trustee you appointed then instruct the solicitor/conveyancer to pay the full proceeds to you alone as you are  the surviving  tenant -in- common  AND  the beneficiary of the will of the deceased who was the beneficial owner of the other half interest.

poppystar

getmore4less said

I don't think(would have to check) there is anything stopping your solicitor being the second trustee

update:

Despite my discussions with the solicitor prior to instructing them for the conveyancing the person now dealing with it is adamant the second trustee must be a family member.

They will not act in this capacity themselves and rule out my using a friend as the purpose is to protect my late father’s interests so it has to be a family member “who knows the circumstances”.  As I have pointed out to them there is really no close family member I can call on and certainly none who know the ‘circumstances’.

I am obviously able to provide both Wills which I would have thought would be satisfactory to show how the interest has passed but this does not appear to be enough so the conveyancing has now stalled.

The latest update on probate suggests that my application is unlikely to even get to the front of the queue let alone be approved in time for my buyers to complete before the stamp duty holiday ends. 

xylophone

as the purpose is to protect my late father’s interests so it has to be a family member “who knows the circumstances”. 

I am mystified by this.

Savvy_Sue

If the solicitor cannot explain to your satisfaction why they can't act in this capacity, is there another person in the firm who can?

If not, do you have a local law centre/ trade union membership / legal cover with your house insurance / Which membership / SOMETHING which will let you ask a question in principle to get to the bottom of this.

Unless there is something interesting about your late father's interests and the 'situation? 

Land_Registry

poppystar said:

Five months down the line and with no sign of the probate office even looking at my application let alone granting probate I need to appoint a second transferor for the sale. There is no family who can do this so I have to ‘sell’ the task to a friend. There is no problem finding someone willing but I want to ensure they (and I) know what they are taking on. What are the rights and responsibilities? Are there any potential liabilities? How to find the best person for the task? Thanks.

Can you clarify how the property is registered and what has actually happened to the owner(s) please? 

I’ve read a few of your threads and think it was in joint names of parents but Mum died, triggering a few posts, and I think Dad has now died as well hence probate being applied for? - profuse apologies if wrong