Urgent advice needed

Wheretostart90

Ok,  so I will attempt to keep this as simple as I can. 

My husbands brother passed away in October, he owned a house in Wales which he was letting 2 friends live and pay rent for. 
No tenancy was ever drawn up 
He was not listed as a landlord 
He was living in England with his nan and grandad at the time of his death and probably a year or so before, we were not in contact with him in the last few years so didn't know any of this. 

So, my husband's dad took over everything and said they could stay there until after Christmas, as it's being put up for sale. 

They were meant to be leaving the house Friday however he has had a message to say the council have advised them to stay in the premises and he cannot make them leave for 6 months as they are in a stage 4 lockdown and have rights. 

Is this still correct even though there is no tenancy in place? 
I know this is the case if there is and I know they can prove they have paid rent for some time. 

His dad is planning on going Friday, changing the locks and emptying their stuff out the house which I don't think help the situation and maybe he will get into trouble? 

davidmcn

If they're staying there in exchange for rent then there's a tenancy, whether or not anything is in writing. So minimum notice period / requirement to go to court before evicting etc all applies.

Slithery

They do have a tenancy, it just isn't written down anywhere. The still have all of the legal rights that this entails.

If all of the legal side of the tenancy is in order then current notice required is 6 months before you can start applying to the courts for eviction. However, if say the property didn't have the required gas safety certificate at the start of the tenancy then you may never be able to evict through the courts and your only option would be to pay the tenants to leave.

An illegal eviction of the type your father is talking about will lead to a very substantial fine and maybe even some jail time.

MaryNB

Wheretostart90 said:

His dad is planning on going Friday, changing the locks and emptying their stuff out the house which I don't think help the situation and maybe he will get into trouble? 

It will be a criminal offence. Your father in law will need to get all his requirements as a landlord sorted, then issue an S21. If they don't move out after the 6 month notice (assuming all the tenancy requirements are met e.g. gas safety cert and EPC amongst many many other things). Then he applies to court and the court can order an eviction, and the baliff can change the lock.
If he's missing one thing from the S21 checklist then it's invalid and he start again. He's got a lot of work to do.

The tenants are obviously aware of at least some of their rights so going there to the change the locks is a very very bad idea, and once again, illegal.

GDB2222

It's far, far worse than that! There are a myriad of tiny details required, and the courts won't grant an eviction notice unless these have been followed to the letter. The chances are that they have not been. Even if they have, how can you prove it? 

There's a sticky explaining all this.

greatcrested

As exlplained there is a tenancy. Rent is paid in return for a property.

Illegal eviction is a (serious) criminal offense.

Furthermore, I strongly suspect the landlord has broken multilple laws already. As a start, all landlords in Wales must be registered. Is he?

A heavy fine, and possibly prison, could result from changing the locks.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1977/43?view=extent

https://www.rentsmart.gov.wales/en/landlord/landlord-registration/

GDB2222

"His dad is planning on going Friday, changing the locks and emptying their stuff out the house which I don't think help the situation and maybe he will get into trouble? "

Good grief! I hadn't spotted that for some reason. In terms of criminality, it's more or less equivalent to shooting the tenants with a shotgun, although his dad won't get life imprisonment. The police will certainly arrest him, and he'll have a night in the cells, followed by a court appearance.

SpiderLegs

Wheretostart90 said:

His dad is planning on going Friday, changing the locks and emptying their stuff out the house which I don't think help the situation and maybe he will get into trouble? 

Oh I’m sure it’ll be perfectly fine.
Please keep us informed, with pictures if possible.

Wheretostart90

I'm just asking for advice as we didn't know about any of this until my brother in law passed away, we wasn't in contact with any of them. 

It was basically his mates needing somewhere to stay, he let them whilst he had an empty house. 
Unfortunately he has done nothing above board, he is not registered as a landlord, I can't see the safety certification being done either. 

The one lad who lives there called his dad today to say the what the council have advised and it's annoyed him, which is why he plans to go Friday. 
I'm worried as I know it's wrong but no getting through to him, so wasn't sure what would actually happen. 
I know they have rights but what can I say or do. 

NameUnavailable

Wheretostart90 said:

He was not listed as a landlord 


They were meant to be leaving the house Friday however he has had a message to say the council have advised them to stay in the premises and he cannot make them leave for 6 months as they are in a stage 4 lockdown and have rights. 

Sounds like you have just opened a huge can of worms! First thing is to register for whoever is now the landlord.

When you say they were meant to be leaving on Friday, what do you mean? Was this because of a previous notice period that had been served (legally) or did someone phone them up one day and say 'get out by the 22nd' ?

Sounds like it's the latter and the tenants (they are tenants) have looked into their rights and in all fairness you can't blame them for that - it's not their fault your relative has died and why should they be made suddenly homeless just because the family now want to sell the property?

It sounds like the best thing is to be really nice to them, and see if they will agree to move out voluntarily when it's right for them to do so. A cash incentive may also help to get some agreement (paid when they leave). Otherwise it would seem that the odds are stacked firmly in their favour if they want to stay put, but be thankful that they're paying the rent.

I do hope the message gets through in time to stop your other relative from going to prison!

Slithery

About the only thing you can do is pay them to leave. Seeing as they would be making themselves 'intentionally homeless' in the eyes of the council they would no longer be eligible for any council assistance so would be giving up a lot.

I'd start my opening offer at £5000 but be prepared to pay more. If they refuse then there isn't much you can do except find a cash buyer who wants to take over the existing unregulated tenancy and expect to take a 50% hit in the property value.