Petrol vs Diesel

Mickey666

Scot22 said:

After my last diesel, with dpf etc  I would never buy another.  Average mileage so thought potential fuel saving but smashed by cost of maintenance.

How much of the maintenance was due to it being a diesel?
I recently had to pay about £900 for a new headlamp (don't ask!) but I can hardly blame that on the car being a diesel.

dipsomaniac

£900!!! Name & shame

frost500

Diesels. Boost/Turbo issues. Injector issues. DPF failing due to frequent cold starts. They just do not get hot enough for the majority of drivers usage. Then again the Ford eco boost petrols are just as bad. But for every engine failure or big bill, there is the same model engine with no issues on the same mileage. I think a lot of issues come down to the driver, some people still press the accelerator when they start the engine, don't they understand this means turbo failure. Drivers with dpfs who don't go on frequent longish drives (20 miles plus). Cold oil means short component life. I suppose it all comes down to personal choice. After 30 years of driving/buying/selling/fixing cars, all I can say is German and Japanese. Everybody plays catch up.

Ditzy_Mitzy

frost500 said:

Diesels. Boost/Turbo issues. Injector issues. DPF failing due to frequent cold starts. They just do not get hot enough for the majority of drivers usage. Then again the Ford eco boost petrols are just as bad. But for every engine failure or big bill, there is the same model engine with no issues on the same mileage. I think a lot of issues come down to the driver, some people still press the accelerator when they start the engine, don't they understand this means turbo failure. Drivers with dpfs who don't go on frequent longish drives (20 miles plus). Cold oil means short component life. I suppose it all comes down to personal choice. After 30 years of driving/buying/selling/fixing cars, all I can say is German and Japanese. Everybody plays catch up.

It's all mostly subjective, really.  No matter how well engineered a car is, years of bad driving or maintenance will take their toll.  I've always driven second hand cars and have found the ones that received wisdom defines as good, i.e. German and Japanese, distinctly average.  Conversely I've had cars that were rubbished by automotive snobs, in particular a Nissan Bluebird and various Fords, which ran like clockwork.  

[Deleted User]

AdrianC said:

anotheruser said:

Mase more difficult as I'm looking at a 2017 plate. Some say free tax, others say £155, hence confusion.
Tax is likely to be the biggest outgoing for that car (apart from the initial purchase of course).

VED changed for cars registered on or after 1st April 2017. That was a month into 17 plates.
16/66 and before are all on the old scheme, CO2 banded.
67/18 and later are all on the new, flat-rate plus £40k list-price hike.
17 plate, you need to check the exact car you're looking at.

And, no, VED will not be the biggest outgoing. Tax is cheap. Even if it's a Band M/£40k+, £565/year vs £475 car.
Depreciation will almost certainly be the biggest outgoing. Insurance, maintenance, fuel will all be up there, too.

Depreciation is NOT A COST. It is NOT AN OUTGOING
You do not pay an annual bill for "depreciation". Depreciation is an issue if you buy a car intending to run it for say 3 years and sell it and even then it's arguable as, shock horror, you use the thing you bought. My bottle of whisky has depreciated from £100 to £0 because I drank it. Have I lost £100 through depreciation? No! I enjoyed the whisky and it gave me the value
Someone still running a 56 plate car and on about buying a 4 year old car, presumably to run it for another 12-13 years does not have a cost of depreciation. Their biggest costs are maintenance, insurance, fuel and tax.

daveyjp

Deleted_User said:

AdrianC said:

anotheruser said:

Mase more difficult as I'm looking at a 2017 plate. Some say free tax, others say £155, hence confusion.
Tax is likely to be the biggest outgoing for that car (apart from the initial purchase of course).

VED changed for cars registered on or after 1st April 2017. That was a month into 17 plates.
16/66 and before are all on the old scheme, CO2 banded.
67/18 and later are all on the new, flat-rate plus £40k list-price hike.
17 plate, you need to check the exact car you're looking at.

And, no, VED will not be the biggest outgoing. Tax is cheap. Even if it's a Band M/£40k+, £565/year vs £475 car.
Depreciation will almost certainly be the biggest outgoing. Insurance, maintenance, fuel will all be up there, too.

Depreciation is NOT A COST. It is NOT AN OUTGOING
You do not pay an annual bill for "depreciation". Depreciation is an issue if you buy a car intending to run it for say 3 years and sell it and even then it's arguable as, shock horror, you use the thing you bought. My bottle of whisky has depreciated from £100 to £0 because I drank it. Have I lost £100 through depreciation? No! I enjoyed the whisky and it gave me the value
Someone still running a 56 plate car and on about buying a 4 year old car, presumably to run it for another 12-13 years does not have a cost of depreciation. Their biggest costs are maintenance, insurance, fuel and tax.

So if I buy a car, lock it away and don't drive it for 4 years it won't depreciate?

Ditzy_Mitzy

daveyjp said:

Deleted_User said:

AdrianC said:

anotheruser said:

Mase more difficult as I'm looking at a 2017 plate. Some say free tax, others say £155, hence confusion.
Tax is likely to be the biggest outgoing for that car (apart from the initial purchase of course).

VED changed for cars registered on or after 1st April 2017. That was a month into 17 plates.
16/66 and before are all on the old scheme, CO2 banded.
67/18 and later are all on the new, flat-rate plus £40k list-price hike.
17 plate, you need to check the exact car you're looking at.

And, no, VED will not be the biggest outgoing. Tax is cheap. Even if it's a Band M/£40k+, £565/year vs £475 car.
Depreciation will almost certainly be the biggest outgoing. Insurance, maintenance, fuel will all be up there, too.

Depreciation is NOT A COST. It is NOT AN OUTGOING
You do not pay an annual bill for "depreciation". Depreciation is an issue if you buy a car intending to run it for say 3 years and sell it and even then it's arguable as, shock horror, you use the thing you bought. My bottle of whisky has depreciated from £100 to £0 because I drank it. Have I lost £100 through depreciation? No! I enjoyed the whisky and it gave me the value
Someone still running a 56 plate car and on about buying a 4 year old car, presumably to run it for another 12-13 years does not have a cost of depreciation. Their biggest costs are maintenance, insurance, fuel and tax.

So if I buy a car, lock it away and don't drive it for 4 years it won't depreciate?

If you choose the right car then no, it won't depreciate at all.  You'd be advised to give it the odd run out rather than completely ignoring it but lots of cars actually gain value as they age.  

daveyjp

"Lots of" is stretching it.
Of the 70-80 million of new cars sold every year a few thousand costing far more than the average Joe will pay for a car gain value with age. 

Depreciation is a deferred cost, crystalised when the car is sold.  At that point you need to pay the cost of the depreciation.

Herzlos

Deleted_User said:

AdrianC said:

anotheruser said:

Mase more difficult as I'm looking at a 2017 plate. Some say free tax, others say £155, hence confusion.
Tax is likely to be the biggest outgoing for that car (apart from the initial purchase of course).

VED changed for cars registered on or after 1st April 2017. That was a month into 17 plates.
16/66 and before are all on the old scheme, CO2 banded.
67/18 and later are all on the new, flat-rate plus £40k list-price hike.
17 plate, you need to check the exact car you're looking at.

And, no, VED will not be the biggest outgoing. Tax is cheap. Even if it's a Band M/£40k+, £565/year vs £475 car.
Depreciation will almost certainly be the biggest outgoing. Insurance, maintenance, fuel will all be up there, too.

Depreciation is NOT A COST. It is NOT AN OUTGOING
You do not pay an annual bill for "depreciation". Depreciation is an issue if you buy a car intending to run it for say 3 years and sell it and even then it's arguable as, shock horror, you use the thing you bought. My bottle of whisky has depreciated from £100 to £0 because I drank it. Have I lost £100 through depreciation? No! I enjoyed the whisky and it gave me the value
Someone still running a 56 plate car and on about buying a 4 year old car, presumably to run it for another 12-13 years does not have a cost of depreciation. Their biggest costs are maintenance, insurance, fuel and tax.

It's an expense however you want to factor it out, and a particularly relevant one if you've borrowed money to pay for the car.
You need to look at the total cost of ownership over some time period (3,5,10 years or whatever) and I bet that VED is nowhere near the depreciation.
There are some extreme edge cases though; You could buy a 2006 Jaguar X-Type with the 3.0 petrol V6 for £1000 and be paying £500/year in tax whilst depreciating by almost nothing. On the other end, you could buy an early 2017 car for £10k and be paying £20/year tax whilst losing £3k/year in depreciation.

Mickey666

dipsomaniac said:

£900!!! Name & shame

Merc E-class fancy auto-dipping, follow-the-steering headlamp.  Absolutely brilliant for driving but a bit pricey when you hit a pheasant and it wrecks the whole unit.  And that was a local independent garage price - goodness knows what a Merc main agent would have charged. 
Still, that's cars for you, expensive necessities and why we all need an 'emergency fund'.