covenant and commercial van

Morrigan_2020

mattyprice4004 said:

Morrigan_2020 said:

These new build covenants are so snobby, we need to get a grip on this before we end up with US style HOAs dictating what plants people can grow and how many garden gnomes they're allowed. 

I'd rather that than the free-for-all I've seen on some estates!

Genuine question, why?  

What is so terrible about a commercial van on someone's drive or parking space?  We all want good tradespeople to come to our homes and work when we need them, do we want them to store their vans in Narnia or a Tardis when they are at home?

AdrianC

Morrigan_2020 said:

AdrianC said:

Morrigan_2020 said:

These new build covenants are so snobby, we need to get a grip on this before we end up with US style HOAs dictating what plants people can grow and how many garden gnomes they're allowed. 

The simple and direct way to resolve it is to not buy a house with that covenant in place.
Nothing else will be effective.

People said that about leasehold, but then it got harder and harder to do so as there just weren't enough new homes being built that didn't come with the problems.

So don't buy a new-build. Not that age is the determiner here - the OP bought a house on a 1980 development.

The new build my parents bought in the early nineties technically had covenants, those are 30 year old houses now, so you have to go back a fair way to be sure!

The 1890s house we used to live in had covenants. Among other things, we weren't permitted to keep chickens or retail alcohol... None of them were an issue to us - and it wasn't on an estate that was actively managed by the beneficiary of the covenant.

Covenants are not the issue per se.
Buying a house with covenants that you know will directly restrict you from what you wish to do is, especially when it is on a development actively managed by the beneficiary of the covenants.

Alan2020

Morrigan_2020 said:

mattyprice4004 said:

Morrigan_2020 said:

These new build covenants are so snobby, we need to get a grip on this before we end up with US style HOAs dictating what plants people can grow and how many garden gnomes they're allowed. 

I'd rather that than the free-for-all I've seen on some estates!

Genuine question, why?  

What is so terrible about a commercial van on someone's drive or parking space?  We all want good tradespeople to come to our homes and work when we need them, do we want them to store their vans in Narnia or a Tardis when they are at home?

I think you have completely misunderstood the reason for these covenants;
1. Vast majority of commercial vehicles don't fit in a standard parking space - this blanket rule prevents this
2. There are insurance implications, if you have gas canisters in the van, who is liable if there is an explosion.  The management company is not paying for your business benefit - why should other residents subsidise your business - do you buy your child's teacher a free car as their pay is poor?
3. The landlord is liable for anything that happens on their land.  What happens if I park my small lorry with formaldehyde mixed with oil waste and the tank splits and this goes into the block paved driveway with SUDS and goes into the land.  The EA has put the cleanup cost at £10million, who is going to pay this?  I am just renting and have no tangible assets or insurance cover for this.  Freeholders insurance doesn't cover commercial vehicles.  The EA has put a charge on the building and you are about to retire, with a £250K flat, now the charge transferred to each leaseholder is £500K, you will loose everything.  Is this fair?  The lorry should have been parked in a commercial lockup with the appropriate Bunding, security and insurance.  Why should others loose money for someone who doesn't want to run their business legitimately and pay for commercial vehicle storage, which is a business cost.  If its your own private house, its your problem and cost.

AdrianC

While I appreciate the general sentiment of that, @Alan2020, it does need a mild tempering with reality...

Anything over 3.5t would need an operator licence anyway, so we are really only talking about 3.5t-and-below. The Iveco Daily I used earlier was deliberately the largest 3.5t van on the market today. The vast majority of 3.5t vans are <6m length (anything above can be spotted at a glance by the side marker lights). There are plenty of 5m+ length cars and SUVs on the market.

Gas canisters? Well, is there any ruling against - say - scuba tanks being stored and charged on the premises, if your hobby happens to be diving? Or the helium canisters for the balloons (and definitely no squeeky voices) for the kids' birthday party?

Anybody carrying formaldehyde and waste oil legally for their commercial activities would require a waste carriers' licence, and that will certainly carry restrictions.

davidmcn

Alan2020 said:

Morrigan_2020 said:

mattyprice4004 said:

Morrigan_2020 said:

These new build covenants are so snobby, we need to get a grip on this before we end up with US style HOAs dictating what plants people can grow and how many garden gnomes they're allowed. 

I'd rather that than the free-for-all I've seen on some estates!

Genuine question, why?  

What is so terrible about a commercial van on someone's drive or parking space?  We all want good tradespeople to come to our homes and work when we need them, do we want them to store their vans in Narnia or a Tardis when they are at home?

If its your own private house, its your problem and cost.

The OP has said that it is their own land they're talking about, not anything likely to have a communal insurance policy etc.

Alan2020

AdrianC said:

While I appreciate the general sentiment of that, @Alan2020, it does need a mild tempering with reality...

Anything over 3.5t would need an operator licence anyway, so we are really only talking about 3.5t-and-below. The Iveco Daily I used earlier was deliberately the largest 3.5t van on the market today. The vast majority of 3.5t vans are <6m length (anything above can be spotted at a glance by the side marker lights). There are plenty of 5m+ length cars and SUVs on the market.

Gas canisters? Well, is there any ruling against - say - scuba tanks being stored and charged on the premises, if your hobby happens to be diving? Or the helium canisters for the balloons (and definitely no squeeky voices) for the kids' birthday party?

Anybody carrying formaldehyde and waste oil legally for their commercial activities would require a waste carriers' licence, and that will certainly carry restrictions.

I was just trying to say it's not snobbery, you are ultimately liable as they landowner, by putting in a covenant and enforcing it, you have taken reasonable measures.  Of course, I wholly agree with what you say, however if you have lived in these sorts of places, people who break covenants have a cavalier attitude to other laws, think of the number of times I have seen commercial vehicles carrying dodgy things parked in peoples homes ;-)

I meant gas as in welding gas, flammable gases.  Oxy-acetylene torch etc.  If you think of something like this, a plumber may have soldering gas, not many people will have camping stove, many other reasons, like theft of tools etc.  I would never park my van full of festool in an estate.  A commercial secured lockup all day.

Alan2020

davidmcn said:

Alan2020 said:

Morrigan_2020 said:

mattyprice4004 said:

Morrigan_2020 said:

These new build covenants are so snobby, we need to get a grip on this before we end up with US style HOAs dictating what plants people can grow and how many garden gnomes they're allowed. 

I'd rather that than the free-for-all I've seen on some estates!

Genuine question, why?  

What is so terrible about a commercial van on someone's drive or parking space?  We all want good tradespeople to come to our homes and work when we need them, do we want them to store their vans in Narnia or a Tardis when they are at home?

If its your own private house, its your problem and cost.

The OP has said that it is their own land they're talking about, not anything likely to have a communal insurance policy etc.

Sorry I wasn't replying to the OP, someone asked why, is it snobbery, seriously!  I think people like developers or land owners cannot be bothered listing all things, its just cheaper to get a blanket cover.