Redundancy, redeployment & new jobs offers

Lifes_Grand_Plan

Hi folks, interested in some group think if anyone would mind sharing an opinion.

Long story short, I (just me, no one else) was put At Risk a couple of weeks ago after returning from Christmas break. Their basis was that most of my role has now transferred to "specialists" that have been recruited elsewhere in the organisation. At the first consultation meeting I pushed back on this because the "most of my role" as they suggested was actually one line of a 23 line job description. Even the things they were talking about as having transferred to others is debateable whether they were ever actually covered in that one line of my JD anyway. I now await the second consultation meeting (possibly this week) where I presume they will either confirm redundancy regardless and my notice period starts, or will have to back down on the basis of the challenge I raised?

Separate from the above, I have obviously been hitting the job application trail and got a call today to say I've got an interview. Obviously good news but is a £10k a year pay cut which is not so good. However the job could be very good for my development and mental health with hopefully more support and care of their staff and a good work/life balance. Assuming they try and force my redundancy through, I would plan to take redundancy, work my notice,  walk away with the small redundancy amount, and then start the new job. However in the background I am working with HR at current employer to look at redeployment. Unlikely to happen due to my specialist skillset and their current reluctance to recruit much due to Covid. However if I start my notice period and accept this new role, i'm worried they may offer any unsuitable role to call my bluff on the redundancy pay, especially if they start getting asked for references from my new employer. Am I right in thinking that, if by some miracle they do magic up a suitable redeployment for me, that I can't refuse it or risk losing the redundancy payment?

jcrennie

On point 1 - did you take a colleague or trade union representative with you? If not, or before your 2nd meeting just make sure you have someone in the room with you. It's the single most important thing. Never go in to a redundacy meeting without someone accompanying you. and also ask for the meeting minutes to be documented. From what you are saying, with your role job description they are saying it is because the role has transferred to specialists, but according to you this is only a very minor part of your documented role. Point this out to them in your consultation meeting, ask for the job description of the role the specialists do and compare it. There is nothing wrong in asking them the difference. In my experience they probably will not back down, but you can put up a challenge. They might be trying to make your role redundant without any business cause- I'd maybe ask for a protected conversation if you suspect any foul play. It might mean rather than redundancy you come to a mutual agreement, still under the same terms but with a few extra thousands.

On the second point, they have made your role redundant, even if they find a suitable alternative you can take the redundancy package and walk away from the role, they cannot withhold the package it is a legal right. And if they do, this is why you have everything documented and have a witness. An employment tribunal would have a field day. As part of the process, the company you work for has to look for other suitable roles for you, but you do not have to accept.

Lifes_Grand_Plan

jcrennie said:

On point 1 - did you take a colleague or trade union representative with you? If not, or before your 2nd meeting just make sure you have someone in the room with you. It's the single most important thing. Never go in to a redundacy meeting without someone accompanying you. and also ask for the meeting minutes to be documented. From what you are saying, with your role job description they are saying it is because the role has transferred to specialists, but according to you this is only a very minor part of your documented role. Point this out to them in your consultation meeting, ask for the job description of the role the specialists do and compare it. There is nothing wrong in asking them the difference. In my experience they probably will not back down, but you can put up a challenge. They might be trying to make your role redundant without any business cause- I'd maybe ask for a protected conversation if you suspect any foul play. It might mean rather than redundancy you come to a mutual agreement, still under the same terms but with a few extra thousands.

On the second point, they have made your role redundant, even if they find a suitable alternative you can take the redundancy package and walk away from the role, they cannot withhold the package it is a legal right. And if they do, this is why you have everything documented and have a witness. An employment tribunal would have a field day. As part of the process, the company you work for has to look for other suitable roles for you, but you do not have to accept.

Thanks for the reply jcrennie, much appreciated.

I didn't have anyone with me in the first meeting as i'm not in the Union and couldn't really think of anyone else who would add value by being there. Ahead of the first consultation meeting I submitted a written statement challenging the suggestion of redundancy documenting that the areas they had focussed on was only 1 line of my JD. Also that despite the specialist knowledge / work transferring - which was never intended to be part of my role anyway and was only covered 'best effort' by me in the absence of these specialists. I have my second consultation meeting probably later this week and they planned to go away from the last meeting and review my challenges so I should find out how they respond to them soon.

To be honest I too don't expect them to back down and in a way hope they don't. My relationship with my line manager has been rock bottom since he came into the department. He's a likeable chap but we just haven't clicked, don't rate each other, and trust levels are virtually zero despite us both remaining professional. However we're in the middle of a pandemic and i'm on a reasonable (not amazing) salary which I may struggle to replicate elsewhere. So I need to either stay in this job (grin an bear it until I can find something else) or if I do go, ensure I go with the best payoff I can possibly get to get my family through.

Regarding the redeployment, I thought an employee couldn't refuse redeployment to a suitable alternative and if they did, that the redundancy payment could be withheld? I think its unlikely they will find me an alternative as my work is specialist so only likely to sit well in my current team which won't happen. Pure and simple I think my manager is under pressure to reduce costs, doesn't understand or appreciate the work I do, and thinks he can easily get rid

jcrennie

Lifes_Grand_Plan said:

jcrennie said:

On point 1 - did you take a colleague or trade union representative with you? If not, or before your 2nd meeting just make sure you have someone in the room with you. It's the single most important thing. Never go in to a redundacy meeting without someone accompanying you. and also ask for the meeting minutes to be documented. From what you are saying, with your role job description they are saying it is because the role has transferred to specialists, but according to you this is only a very minor part of your documented role. Point this out to them in your consultation meeting, ask for the job description of the role the specialists do and compare it. There is nothing wrong in asking them the difference. In my experience they probably will not back down, but you can put up a challenge. They might be trying to make your role redundant without any business cause- I'd maybe ask for a protected conversation if you suspect any foul play. It might mean rather than redundancy you come to a mutual agreement, still under the same terms but with a few extra thousands.

On the second point, they have made your role redundant, even if they find a suitable alternative you can take the redundancy package and walk away from the role, they cannot withhold the package it is a legal right. And if they do, this is why you have everything documented and have a witness. An employment tribunal would have a field day. As part of the process, the company you work for has to look for other suitable roles for you, but you do not have to accept.

Thanks for the reply jcrennie, much appreciated.

I didn't have anyone with me in the first meeting as i'm not in the Union and couldn't really think of anyone else who would add value by being there. Ahead of the first consultation meeting I submitted a written statement challenging the suggestion of redundancy documenting that the areas they had focussed on was only 1 line of my JD. Also that despite the specialist knowledge / work transferring - which was never intended to be part of my role anyway and was only covered 'best effort' by me in the absence of these specialists. I have my second consultation meeting probably later this week and they planned to go away from the last meeting and review my challenges so I should find out how they respond to them soon.

To be honest I too don't expect them to back down and in a way hope they don't. My relationship with my line manager has been rock bottom since he came into the department. He's a likeable chap but we just haven't clicked, don't rate each other, and trust levels are virtually zero despite us both remaining professional. However we're in the middle of a pandemic and i'm on a reasonable (not amazing) salary which I may struggle to replicate elsewhere. So I need to either stay in this job (grin an bear it until I can find something else) or if I do go, ensure I go with the best payoff I can possibly get to get my family through.

Regarding the redeployment, I thought an employee couldn't refuse redeployment to a suitable alternative and if they did, that the redundancy payment could be withheld? I think its unlikely they will find me an alternative as my work is specialist so only likely to sit well in my current team which won't happen. Pure and simple I think my manager is under pressure to reduce costs, doesn't understand or appreciate the work I do, and thinks he can easily get rid

Make sure for your second consultation meeting in you have somebody in there with you. I cannot stress how this is the single most important thing- ask a colleague to come in with you. I work in HR and have been put at risk before. It is your legal right and you have no idea what they might say in their notes, I've seen people have notes that are completely different to their consultations from what they claimed. Use the meetings as the formal process, don't go too hard or emotive in them. Listen to what they have to say and then as you are doing suggest counter proposals. In my experience these rarely work but its worth a shot.

If I am honest from what you are saying, it sounds to me like you would be happy to go. If that's the case, then I would use the consultation meeting to angle the fact that you think your redundancy is discriminatory about your performance and ask HR about having a protected conversation and see if they are open to it, especially if you think you have a case for any employment law case down the line through unfair redundancy. Means you will get the redundancy package regardless and a bit extra too, although you sign away your right to any employment law case down the line.

The job market is tough right now and you might have to take a lesser salary, but look at it from a short term perspective- you're not building a career there. There is nothing to stop you from looking at other, better salaried jobs if you take a lesser job in the short term

If the company are making your role redundant, they cannot withdraw the redundancy payout. They have a legal right to look for suitable alternatives, but if you choose not to accept they still have to pay you off to leave unless you resign of your own accord through finding another job. In any case, if you find another job don't tell your current employer, they owe you nothing and similarly if you get a good vibe from the company you will be joining, they will be understanding or will offer you an incentive payment to join the company to the same figure as your redundancy package (I've seen both happen).

krusty101

It isn’t true what you’re being told about suitable alternative employment https://www.gov.uk/redundancy-your-rights/suitable-alternative-employment

It really depends on what they offer you to make it a ‘suitable alternative’ or not. If there are differences (pay, hours, etc) then you could reasonably turn it down.