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Bank Mis-processes Solicitor's Payment for Sale
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Many thanks to everyone that has commented.
Apologies, I have been AFK.
There has been little movement - despite talk of meetings.
Here is the text from M&S "The EPS Services (Electronic Payment Services) team are currently in the process of retrieving the money from the overseas account that your money was routed to in error. As your money was sent to an overseas account they are liaising with the third party and processing the request to return your money to you."
We had wondered whether it was a money laundering check initially, but the response from M&S would seem to exclude that possibility.
Here is another bit of text: "Your account is an M&S Bank account, M&S Bank is a separate bank from HSBC and we have our own banking licence. However, we are in the larger HSBC group and use HSBC’s infrastructure. Which appears to be where the payment error has occurred. We are in continued contact with HSBC in order to rectify the error."
What seems to me to be odd is that the contractual responsibilities are not clear.
If the solicitors initiated the payment with their bank Lloyds and say that it has cleared to the account. If it does not arrive surely Lloyds have not carried out their contractually responsibilities - and so are responsible. However, none of the correspondence seems to recognise this. I'd have thought that there is some breach of consumer protection here.
Furthermore, the various links in the chain are treating the payment as if there is a specific package being passed down a chain. But cash is fungible. There was a bulk settlement (or similar) to HSBC. If they mistakenly pay away some of this, then surely that is their problem. They still have a responsibility to make the payment. Again, despite pointing this out, there is no engagement with this point. For me a test case would be fraud. I'm pretty sure that if the money was stolen fraudulently, then the bank cannot pass the cost on to the customer (assuming all the details are correct). I cannot see how this is different in substance. Does anyone see the legal situation differently?2 -
Steves2 - I'm really sorry to hear this has happened to you.
Our experience with M&S was initially very similar - "they really do not seem to care", but we luckily ended up with someone helpful and (I think) it was his raising of a formal complaint that got us a little more attention. If you are not in the process of raising and expanding upon your formal complaint, then I'd suggest (as others have on this thread) that you do so. (You talked about a complaint, I'm just not sure whether this is a 'formal' one according to M&S processes).
In some ways this is so sad, as our experience with M&S until now has been really good. Everything has soured now.
I'll keep you (and everyone else) posted on what happens. It would be good if you could also let us know what is happening with your case. I wish you the best of luck, this is a pretty distressing situation to be in. However, I am 99% sure that eventually we will get the funds. It is just a pity we have to make so much effort to ensure we do.4 -
One point to note: both Steves2 and we tried to make the complaint on M&S's internet banking portal but it kept saying we had put in an incorrect character and we could not work out what it was. In fact, I'm pretty sure after an hour or so of testing it was a bug in the portal. Given the long time between our two issues, it sounds as if this is an ongoing problem. I've raised this with M&S already, but I will raise again now that I know it has not been fixed.0
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What seems to me to be odd is that the contractual responsibilities are not clear.If the solicitors initiated the payment with their bank Lloyds and say that it has cleared to the account. If it does not arrive surely Lloyds have not carried out their contractually responsibilities - and so are responsible. However, none of the correspondence seems to recognise this. I'd have thought that there is some breach of consumer protection here.
Furthermore, the various links in the chain are treating the payment as if there is a specific package being passed down a chain. But cash is fungible. There was a bulk settlement (or similar) to HSBC. If they mistakenly pay away some of this, then surely that is their problem. They still have a responsibility to make the payment. Again, despite pointing this out, there is no engagement with this point. For me a test case would be fraud. I'm pretty sure that if the money was stolen fraudulently, then the bank cannot pass the cost on to the customer (assuming all the details are correct). I cannot see how this is different in substance. Does anyone see the legal situation differently?
If Lloyds have passed on the correct information then they're not at fault but they should be chasing with the receiving bank upon request from the remitter. All this will be highly stressful to you and you should be noting everything that happens and all correspondence with timeframes so that you can submit a formal claim once you are finally in receipt of your cash. I am not one for claiming for minor inconveniences but this is far beyond that.
I have no doubt that the full funds will be in your account at some point with some compensation so try not to despair. If M&S have erred but can't recall the funds then it'll have to come out of their bottom line2 -
Posters cpx 2 and Steves2 .
Can it really be a coincidence that exactly the same banks (Lloyds/M&S/HSBC) in exactly the same circumstances (CHAPS transfer in respect of a property transaction) have caused exactly the same problem?
What on earth is going on?1 -
All this will be highly stressful to you and you should be noting everything that happens and all correspondence with timeframes so that you can submit a formal claim once you are finally in receipt of your cash. I am not one for claiming for minor inconveniences but this is far beyond that.
It certainly is - I hope that both posters involved will be demanding compensation for the stress, inconvenience and financial loss involved.
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thanks @xylophone. I think it is incredibly strange that it is the same banks involved which is why I cannot understand the banks taking it more seriously. We will certainly be seeking compensation. I am finding it incredibly stressful.1
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I am finding it incredibly stressful.
I am not surprised - I have to say I'd be hopping mad, less at the incompetence, although that is bad enough, but more at the apparently casual and dilatory fashion in which the banks are handling the problems of their making.
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Have you considered taking this to the personal finance problem pages in the Guardian/DM/DT? In my view, MandS bank's conduct is outrageous. They have admitted paying your money away in error. They must surely be obliged to put you in funds immediately. Their efforts to correct their error are of no concern to you. It is immaterial to you whether or not they recover the funds from the overseas account - they will have to put this right. Another option for you is to email the bank's CEO - paul.spencer@hsbc.com, according to my researches.7
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