Boiler Repair Advice

Zazu52

Hi folks,
Moved into a new house a couple of months ago and have been having some issues with our boiler that I wanted to get advice on. 
Boiler is a Vaillant Ecotec pro 28, installed march 2016. Does not have 5 year warranty anymore as the service logbook has not been filled out by previous owners. 

About a month ago we started having an issue where often the boiler wouldn't turn on properly, and error code F28 or F29 would show up - which means that the boiler has failed to ignite the gas 3 times. The boiler would usually start to work properly again after several resets, which was a bit of a pain. After a week or so the boiler stopped working altogether with the same error codes showing. We got an engineer out and he said the boiler was full of water which must have came in through the flue and was causing the issue. We had just had a week of heavy wind and rain so that made sense. He said to leave the boiler to dry out then it should work again.  After a couple of days it was working normally again. My partner and I were then out of the flat for 2 weeks, when I came back the boiler was working fine for a couple of days before the issue started happening again. The boiler had not been turning on at all for about 24 hours, even after several resets, but just before the engineer arrived we got it to work. When the engineer was resetting it, it was working normally so he said he couldn't be 100% sure what was causing issue but that it was probably the electrodes of the ignition. He gave them a clean and was out the house in 15 minutes, saying that if it keeps not working then we can get the electrodes replaced. 

To anyone with more experience of boilers than me, does it sound like this is an issue with the electrodes or could it be something else? I can't really afford to keep paying £75 callout charges and not get the issue fixed. If I pay for him to comeback and replace the electrodes it will be another callout charge plus the parts which I don't want to pay if it won't sort the issue. 
I am not sure if I am best to call another engineer out to look at it, or just get the electrodes replaced and hope that fixes it. 
I realise now that I should probably have bought boiler cover, but I am a first time home owner so it didn't occur to me as a necessary expense. 

BedrockFred

Zazu52 said:

Hi folks,
Moved into a new house a couple of months ago and have been having some issues with our boiler that I wanted to get advice on. 
Boiler is a Vaillant Ecotec pro 28, installed march 2016. Does not have 5 year warranty anymore as the service logbook has not been filled out by previous owners. 

About a month ago we started having an issue where often the boiler wouldn't turn on properly, and error code F28 or F29 would show up - which means that the boiler has failed to ignite the gas 3 times. The boiler would usually start to work properly again after several resets, which was a bit of a pain. After a week or so the boiler stopped working altogether with the same error codes showing. We got an engineer out and he said the boiler was full of water which must have came in through the flue and was causing the issue. We had just had a week of heavy wind and rain so that made sense. He said to leave the boiler to dry out then it should work again.  After a couple of days it was working normally again. My partner and I were then out of the flat for 2 weeks, when I came back the boiler was working fine for a couple of days before the issue started happening again. The boiler had not been turning on at all for about 24 hours, even after several resets, but just before the engineer arrived we got it to work. When the engineer was resetting it, it was working normally so he said he couldn't be 100% sure what was causing issue but that it was probably the electrodes of the ignition. He gave them a clean and was out the house in 15 minutes, saying that if it keeps not working then we can get the electrodes replaced. 

To anyone with more experience of boilers than me, does it sound like this is an issue with the electrodes or could it be something else? I can't really afford to keep paying £75 callout charges and not get the issue fixed. If I pay for him to comeback and replace the electrodes it will be another callout charge plus the parts which I don't want to pay if it won't sort the issue. 
I am not sure if I am best to call another engineer out to look at it, or just get the electrodes replaced and hope that fixes it. 
I realise now that I should probably have bought boiler cover, but I am a first time home owner so it didn't occur to me as a necessary expense. 

Who are you calling out seems rather an expensive call out charge to me, are there any local engineers you are able to use 

tacpot12

A friend had a Vaillant Ecotec that had a lot of water inside it. The engineer found a leak within the boiler that had been spraying all around inside and had damaged the PCB. I wonder if you have an leak inside the boiler that is causing the high voltage spark to the ignition electrode to leak away to earth so that you have a very weak spark. 

I would check around inside the boiler (with the  mains power turned off) to see if you can see more water. If you can, I think you will find that the ignition problems go away when the source of the water is traced. 

You might try calling Vaillant out to investigate the problem. You can see their repair service offers here: One-Off Fixed Price Boiler Repair & Care Plans | Vaillant UK

They have a fixed price option and a six month insurance option. We used the six month insurance option when we had problems with a Vaillant Ecomax boiler at a flat we rent out. The cost was about £300 but Vaillant ended up replacing about £500 worth of parts, plus the labour, so it was a very good deal for us.  You can start down the fixed price route, where they charge you £99 call-out, and  then switch to the insurance option if the Heat Exchanger and Expansion Vessel need changing - the expansion vessel could be a source of the leak. 

milgo

@Zazu52 Have you spoken to Vaillant about one of their engineers attending?  I recently had a fault with my Glow-worm boiler and whilst booking with the agent I was asked to locate the installation manual that confirmed the commission date.  I was asked if the boiler had been regularly serviced (no service entries in the spaces provided in the installation manual) I replied yes, serviced annually via a BG Homecare agreement.  The engineer was booked and attended 3 days later (BG wanted to attend 3 weeks later!) and fixed the fault.  At no point was I asked to prove that any services had been carried out on the boiler.

MWT

They have a fixed price option and a six month insurance option. We used the six month insurance option when we had problems with a Vaillant Ecomax boiler at a flat we rent out. The cost was about £300 but Vaillant ended up replacing about £500 worth of parts, plus the labour, so it was a very good deal for us.  You can start down the fixed price route, where they charge you £99 call-out, and  then switch to the insurance option if the Heat Exchanger and Expansion Vessel need changing - the expansion vessel could be a source of the leak. 

Take care with the Vaillant 'fixed price' options as they will often use the 'water test' route if the fix requires changing any of the parts that water actually flows through, to avoid fixing the boiler before you carry out expensive and often unnecessary power flush/water treatment work at your own expense.

We were having problems with a 6 year old Vaillent EcoTec 28 and our usual plumber couldn't get to us quickly enough so we tried the 'fixed price' route.

They agreed the heat exchanger needed replacing but did a Fernox Water test which reported 'no inhibitor in system', but when you read the fine print Fernox only test for their own inhibitor... We had all the radiators replaced and the system was cleaned and inhibitor added only two months earlier...

Vaillent also failed to even give us the result of the test for over 3 weeks and left us hanging then required a power-flush and inhibitor before they would proceed.

Fortunately we had used the six month insurance option and that is provided by Domestic&General as a 'no fix no fee' product.

Domestic & General agreed that Vaillant had failed to fix the boiler, refunded the first payment and cancelled the policy.

By that time our usual plumber was available and we had the Vaillant removed and replaced with a much better boiler.

Zazu52

BedrockFred said:

Zazu52 said:

Hi folks,
Moved into a new house a couple of months ago and have been having some issues with our boiler that I wanted to get advice on. 
Boiler is a Vaillant Ecotec pro 28, installed march 2016. Does not have 5 year warranty anymore as the service logbook has not been filled out by previous owners. 

About a month ago we started having an issue where often the boiler wouldn't turn on properly, and error code F28 or F29 would show up - which means that the boiler has failed to ignite the gas 3 times. The boiler would usually start to work properly again after several resets, which was a bit of a pain. After a week or so the boiler stopped working altogether with the same error codes showing. We got an engineer out and he said the boiler was full of water which must have came in through the flue and was causing the issue. We had just had a week of heavy wind and rain so that made sense. He said to leave the boiler to dry out then it should work again.  After a couple of days it was working normally again. My partner and I were then out of the flat for 2 weeks, when I came back the boiler was working fine for a couple of days before the issue started happening again. The boiler had not been turning on at all for about 24 hours, even after several resets, but just before the engineer arrived we got it to work. When the engineer was resetting it, it was working normally so he said he couldn't be 100% sure what was causing issue but that it was probably the electrodes of the ignition. He gave them a clean and was out the house in 15 minutes, saying that if it keeps not working then we can get the electrodes replaced. 

To anyone with more experience of boilers than me, does it sound like this is an issue with the electrodes or could it be something else? I can't really afford to keep paying £75 callout charges and not get the issue fixed. If I pay for him to comeback and replace the electrodes it will be another callout charge plus the parts which I don't want to pay if it won't sort the issue. 
I am not sure if I am best to call another engineer out to look at it, or just get the electrodes replaced and hope that fixes it. 
I realise now that I should probably have bought boiler cover, but I am a first time home owner so it didn't occur to me as a necessary expense. 

Who are you calling out seems rather an expensive call out charge to me, are there any local engineers you are able to use 

Thanks for the responses everyone,

They were a local boiler repair company here in Glasgow that had all 5 star google reviews, didn't bother to shop around compaing call out fees but maybe I should have. 

Zazu52

tacpot12 said:

A friend had a Vaillant Ecotec that had a lot of water inside it. The engineer found a leak within the boiler that had been spraying all around inside and had damaged the PCB. I wonder if you have an leak inside the boiler that is causing the high voltage spark to the ignition electrode to leak away to earth so that you have a very weak spark. 

I would check around inside the boiler (with the  mains power turned off) to see if you can see more water. If you can, I think you will find that the ignition problems go away when the source of the water is traced. 

You might try calling Vaillant out to investigate the problem. You can see their repair service offers here: 
They have a fixed price option and a six month insurance option. We used the six month insurance option when we had problems with a Vaillant Ecomax boiler at a flat we rent out. The cost was about £300 but Vaillant ended up replacing about £500 worth of parts, plus the labour, so it was a very good deal for us.  You can start down the fixed price route, where they charge you £99 call-out, and  then switch to the insurance option if the Heat Exchanger and Expansion Vessel need changing - the expansion vessel could be a source of the leak. 

Thanks, that sounds like a similiar issue so might be what is going wrong with mine. 

Sorry, I'm not the most DIY proficient, do you mean turning off the electricity to the whole flat? or turning off the mains hot water connection to the boiler? By Inside the boiler do you mean just with the front cover removed, or would I have to dig around further?

I saw that Vaillant option on their website, but it looks like even just the one off repair is £285 and if they can't fix it then they only charge the £99 for the callout. 

Zazu52

milgo said:

@Zazu52 Have you spoken to Vaillant about one of their engineers attending?  I recently had a fault with my Glow-worm boiler and whilst booking with the agent I was asked to locate the installation manual that confirmed the commission date.  I was asked if the boiler had been regularly serviced (no service entries in the spaces provided in the installation manual) I replied yes, serviced annually via a BG Homecare agreement.  The engineer was booked and attended 3 days later (BG wanted to attend 3 weeks later!) and fixed the fault.  At no point was I asked to prove that any services had been carried out on the boiler.

I have the logbook but it has no entries, however there are stickers on the boiler that show services from march 2017 and March 2018. 
Not sure I'd want to risk it incase that gave it away, or the engineer called out asked to see the logbook and saw it was empty and that I'd lied. 

tacpot12

Zazu52 said:

tacpot12 said:

A friend had a Vaillant Ecotec that had a lot of water inside it. The engineer found a leak within the boiler that had been spraying all around inside and had damaged the PCB. I wonder if you have an leak inside the boiler that is causing the high voltage spark to the ignition electrode to leak away to earth so that you have a very weak spark. 

I would check around inside the boiler (with the  mains power turned off) to see if you can see more water. If you can, I think you will find that the ignition problems go away when the source of the water is traced. 

You might try calling Vaillant out to investigate the problem. You can see their repair service offers here: 
They have a fixed price option and a six month insurance option. We used the six month insurance option when we had problems with a Vaillant Ecomax boiler at a flat we rent out. The cost was about £300 but Vaillant ended up replacing about £500 worth of parts, plus the labour, so it was a very good deal for us.  You can start down the fixed price route, where they charge you £99 call-out, and  then switch to the insurance option if the Heat Exchanger and Expansion Vessel need changing - the expansion vessel could be a source of the leak. 

Thanks, that sounds like a similiar issue so might be what is going wrong with mine. 

Sorry, I'm not the most DIY proficient, do you mean turning off the electricity to the whole flat? or turning off the mains hot water connection to the boiler? By Inside the boiler do you mean just with the front cover removed, or would I have to dig around further?

I saw that Vaillant option on their website, but it looks like even just the one off repair is £285 and if they can't fix it then they only charge the £99 for the callout. 

First, you should turn the boiler off using the On/Off knob on the boiler first, and then turn off the electric supply to the boiler using either the fused switch that should be next to the boiler (and be marked "Boiler Isolator"), or turn off the circuit that the boiler is on at the Consumer unit. It is this second step that it vital - the On/Off knob on the  boiler only stops the boiler running, there will still be live electricity inside the boiler case until you isolate the boiler. If you are not clear how to do this, you are better of paying the callout fee rather than risk electrocution. 

This YouTube video shows how to remove the boiler cover - notice how the control panel flops down when the cover is removed - you should try not to let it flop down like this; try to let down gently. Vaillant EcoTec Plus Gas Boiler Strip down - YouTube

Don't do anything else other than look inside for water. The video makes the point that you really need to be a Gas Safe Engineer to work on boilers, but providing you are careful when you remove the cover and are confident that you can reinstall it correctly, there is no likelihood that anyone will know you have been inside. If you do find water inside, refit the case and say that you saw drips coming out of the boiler. 

Zazu52

tacpot12 said:

Zazu52 said:

tacpot12 said:

A friend had a Vaillant Ecotec that had a lot of water inside it. The engineer found a leak within the boiler that had been spraying all around inside and had damaged the PCB. I wonder if you have an leak inside the boiler that is causing the high voltage spark to the ignition electrode to leak away to earth so that you have a very weak spark. 

I would check around inside the boiler (with the  mains power turned off) to see if you can see more water. If you can, I think you will find that the ignition problems go away when the source of the water is traced. 

You might try calling Vaillant out to investigate the problem. You can see their repair service offers here: 
They have a fixed price option and a six month insurance option. We used the six month insurance option when we had problems with a Vaillant Ecomax boiler at a flat we rent out. The cost was about £300 but Vaillant ended up replacing about £500 worth of parts, plus the labour, so it was a very good deal for us.  You can start down the fixed price route, where they charge you £99 call-out, and  then switch to the insurance option if the Heat Exchanger and Expansion Vessel need changing - the expansion vessel could be a source of the leak. 

Thanks, that sounds like a similiar issue so might be what is going wrong with mine. 

Sorry, I'm not the most DIY proficient, do you mean turning off the electricity to the whole flat? or turning off the mains hot water connection to the boiler? By Inside the boiler do you mean just with the front cover removed, or would I have to dig around further?

I saw that Vaillant option on their website, but it looks like even just the one off repair is £285 and if they can't fix it then they only charge the £99 for the callout. 

First, you should turn the boiler off using the On/Off knob on the boiler first, and then turn off the electric supply to the boiler using either the fused switch that should be next to the boiler (and be marked "Boiler Isolator"), or turn off the circuit that the boiler is on at the Consumer unit. It is this second step that it vital - the On/Off knob on the  boiler only stops the boiler running, there will still be live electricity inside the boiler case until you isolate the boiler. If you are not clear how to do this, you are better of paying the callout fee rather than risk electrocution. 

This YouTube video shows how to remove the boiler cover - notice how the control panel flops down when the cover is removed - you should try not to let it flop down like this; try to let down gently. Vaillant EcoTec Plus Gas Boiler Strip down - YouTube

Don't do anything else other than look inside for water. The video makes the point that you really need to be a Gas Safe Engineer to work on boilers, but providing you are careful when you remove the cover and are confident that you can reinstall it correctly, there is no likelihood that anyone will know you have been inside. If you do find water inside, refit the case and say that you saw drips coming out of the boiler. 

Perfect, thanks so much for your help! 

Zazu52

tacpot12 said:

Zazu52 said:

tacpot12 said:

A friend had a Vaillant Ecotec that had a lot of water inside it. The engineer found a leak within the boiler that had been spraying all around inside and had damaged the PCB. I wonder if you have an leak inside the boiler that is causing the high voltage spark to the ignition electrode to leak away to earth so that you have a very weak spark. 

I would check around inside the boiler (with the  mains power turned off) to see if you can see more water. If you can, I think you will find that the ignition problems go away when the source of the water is traced. 

You might try calling Vaillant out to investigate the problem. You can see their repair service offers here: 
They have a fixed price option and a six month insurance option. We used the six month insurance option when we had problems with a Vaillant Ecomax boiler at a flat we rent out. The cost was about £300 but Vaillant ended up replacing about £500 worth of parts, plus the labour, so it was a very good deal for us.  You can start down the fixed price route, where they charge you £99 call-out, and  then switch to the insurance option if the Heat Exchanger and Expansion Vessel need changing - the expansion vessel could be a source of the leak. 

Thanks, that sounds like a similiar issue so might be what is going wrong with mine. 

Sorry, I'm not the most DIY proficient, do you mean turning off the electricity to the whole flat? or turning off the mains hot water connection to the boiler? By Inside the boiler do you mean just with the front cover removed, or would I have to dig around further?

I saw that Vaillant option on their website, but it looks like even just the one off repair is £285 and if they can't fix it then they only charge the £99 for the callout. 

First, you should turn the boiler off using the On/Off knob on the boiler first, and then turn off the electric supply to the boiler using either the fused switch that should be next to the boiler (and be marked "Boiler Isolator"), or turn off the circuit that the boiler is on at the Consumer unit. It is this second step that it vital - the On/Off knob on the  boiler only stops the boiler running, there will still be live electricity inside the boiler case until you isolate the boiler. If you are not clear how to do this, you are better of paying the callout fee rather than risk electrocution. 

This YouTube video shows how to remove the boiler cover - notice how the control panel flops down when the cover is removed - you should try not to let it flop down like this; try to let down gently. Vaillant EcoTec Plus Gas Boiler Strip down - YouTube

Don't do anything else other than look inside for water. The video makes the point that you really need to be a Gas Safe Engineer to work on boilers, but providing you are careful when you remove the cover and are confident that you can reinstall it correctly, there is no likelihood that anyone will know you have been inside. If you do find water inside, refit the case and say that you saw drips coming out of the boiler. 

Was getting the issue again tonight, so I did as you said and looked inside for water but I couldn't see any at all inside the boiler so I don't think a leak is the issue. 

Does anyone know if there are any signs to look for if it might be an issue with the flue, condensor or debris in the burner?
Is it feasible that the engineer could have checked for those other potential issues and determined that the problem was definitely with the electrodes if he was only here for 15 minutes? He said it was hard to tell 100% what was causing causing the issue as it wasn't happening while he was here - the boiler was working fine, but he thought it was probably the electrodes. Then after he left his boss text me saying they'd get me a price for new electrodes if the issue kept happening. I'm a tad paranoid that if he'd wanted to he could have checked for these other potential issues even with the boiler working, and then just suggested it was probably the electrodes as a quick solution. He came at 7:30pm after supposed to be coming earlier in the afternoon so would make sense if he was keen to get away quick.