Paypal Chargeback Dispute

bignred05

after some advice please, back in Feb2020 I ordered tickets for a show scheduled to go ahead on the 15.Sept2020
all this was  before the Covid Pandemic kicked in and as a result the show I bought the tickets for got cancelled and since then I have had problems trying to get a refund via the venue/promotor.
Prior to Xmas I started a payment dispute/chargeback with Paypal as the tickets were originally paid for via them, they immediately closed my claim stating it was outside their 180 day limit.
I have made the point that the actual event was supposed to take place in Sept 2020 so how could a claim prior or before their 180 days as the show falls after their time limit.
Paypal have basically washed their hands of this and advised to to a chargeback via my credit card.

have I not got any redress with Paypal 
Thanks in advance 

[Deleted User]

As far as they are concerned you lost your protection after you went over 180 days, so no. 

theonlywayisup

Years ago Paypal would contemplate claims which had a time reference outside of their Buyer Protection period. Unfortunately now I don't see that there.

Open a dispute within 180 days of the date on which you made the payment for the purchase you would like to dispute. We may refuse to accept any dispute that you open in relation to that purchase after the expiry of that period (please be aware of this if you agree a delivery time of an item or performance of a service with the payment recipient that falls after the expiry of that period).

Their wording does still suggest it may be possible.  They 'may refuse to accept...'.

If you can contact them again and highlight their wording in the relevant section of Buyer Protection.  It doesn't say these claims are 100% precluded but that they may refuse them (inferring they may also not refuse them).   You have little to lose apart from the time/hassle of pointing. it out.
Section 5b.  https://www.paypal.com/uk/webapps/mpp/ua/buyer-protection?locale.x=en_GB

Your other options are a chargeback through Paypal via your card company but most refuse on the grounds there is a third party (Paypal) in the transaction. 

Or a legislative claim.  Is the supplying company in the UK?

Sandtree

theonlywayisup said:

Your other options are a chargeback through Paypal via your card company but most refuse on the grounds there is a third party (Paypal) in the transaction. 

Even if you win it can just leave your PayPal account with a negative balance which PayPal will attempt to correct by taking the funds from your preferred funding methods in order. If that fails they will make you bring the balance back to zero before allowing you to use your account again and/or may begin debt recovery processes.

born_again

The issue here now is that a Credit card chargeback has a 120 day limit from the date of the event. So you are out of time for that.
Only possible option is a S75 claim, but will rely on the individual ticket price being over £100 (does not include P&P or booking fee's)
But expect that to be declined as you bought via paypal so no creditor/debtor link. Or to put it another way. Your contract was with Paypal to pay the promotor for the event. Which they did. So no breech of contract or misrepresentation.

theonlywayisup

Sandtree said:

theonlywayisup said:

Your other options are a chargeback through Paypal via your card company but most refuse on the grounds there is a third party (Paypal) in the transaction. 

Even if you win it can just leave your PayPal account with a negative balance which PayPal will attempt to correct by taking the funds from your preferred funding methods in order. If that fails they will make you bring the balance back to zero before allowing you to use your account again and/or may begin debt recovery processes.

What are you on about?
Currently the OP has a zero balance apropos this transaction.  

bignred05

MarkN88 said:

As far as they are concerned you lost your protection after you went over 180 days, so no. 

that's my point though
whilst what I paid for got cancelled after their 180 days, how could I have claimed as I was unaware the event would be cancelled.
since the cancellation I have made a number of attempts to get a refund via the venue/promotor, this has fell on deaf ears.
hence why I contacted Paypal for a chargeback.

I've had chargebacks on my credit card paid out from the cancellation date, not some other cut off date

bignred05

born_again said:

The issue here now is that a Credit card chargeback has a 120 day limit from the date of the event. So you are out of time for that.
Only possible option is a S75 claim, but will rely on the individual ticket price being over £100 (does not include P&P or booking fee's)
But expect that to be declined as you bought via paypal so no creditor/debtor link. Or to put it another way. Your contract was with Paypal to pay the promotor for the event. Which they did. So no breech of contract or misrepresentation.

well there's a stroke of luck then (hopefully), following a game of tennis with Paypal over my opinion and their 180 day T&C's
they advised to make a chargeback with my credit card yesterday.
which I did yesterday, which is 120 days from the cancellation.
I suppose the next thing will be, how long it takes my CC to look at it and when does their clock start.

Thanks for all the replies BTW

Sandtree

theonlywayisup said:
What are you on about?

Currently the OP has a zero balance apropos this transaction.  

Lets say you want to buy something for £1,000 and you currently have no funds in your PayPal account with the primary funding method set as your Visa credit card....

You go into your account to say you want to pay MuchoCheapo Tickets £1,000, PayPal take £1,000 from your credit card and add it to your PayPal account balance taking you to +£1,000. It then transfers £1,000 to MuchoCheapo Tickets account increasing their balance by £1,000 minus fees and reducing your balance to £0.

If you then successfully do a chargeback with your Visa Credit card you get £1,000 back but that £1,000 comes from your PayPal account as thats where the funds initially went so your paypal account is now -£1,000. Hence you now have a debt with PayPal and their T&Cs state how they deal with debts, namely initially trying to fund them from your primary payment method.

born_again

bignred05 said:

born_again said:

The issue here now is that a Credit card chargeback has a 120 day limit from the date of the event. So you are out of time for that.
Only possible option is a S75 claim, but will rely on the individual ticket price being over £100 (does not include P&P or booking fee's)
But expect that to be declined as you bought via paypal so no creditor/debtor link. Or to put it another way. Your contract was with Paypal to pay the promotor for the event. Which they did. So no breech of contract or misrepresentation.

well there's a stroke of luck then (hopefully), following a game of tennis with Paypal over my opinion and their 180 day T&C's
they advised to make a chargeback with my credit card yesterday.
which I did yesterday, which is 120 days from the cancellation.
I suppose the next thing will be, how long it takes my CC to look at it and when does their clock start.

Thanks for all the replies BTW

120 days from 15 Sept 2020 was the 13 Jan 2021. So you are a day out of time (no leaway) 
So expect to be told, sorry but out of time.
Also you should always ring card providers on issues like this. Sending letters can take ages to get on to the systems & then actually worked by the teams.

Had you rung on the 13th, then it could have been actioned on the phone with details you could verbal give them.

theonlywayisup

Sandtree said:

theonlywayisup said:
What are you on about?

Currently the OP has a zero balance apropos this transaction.  

Lets say you want to buy something for £1,000 and you currently have no funds in your PayPal account with the primary funding method set as your Visa credit card....

You go into your account to say you want to pay MuchoCheapo Tickets £1,000, PayPal take £1,000 from your credit card and add it to your PayPal account balance taking you to +£1,000. It then transfers £1,000 to MuchoCheapo Tickets account increasing their balance by £1,000 minus fees and reducing your balance to £0.

If you then successfully do a chargeback with your Visa Credit card you get £1,000 back but that £1,000 comes from your PayPal account as thats where the funds initially went so your paypal account is now -£1,000. Hence you now have a debt with PayPal and their T&Cs state how they deal with debts, namely initially trying to fund them from your primary payment method.

You are confusing yourself.
https://www.paypal.com/my/webapps/mpp/security/sell-chargebackguide1
Paypal's simple explanation should help:


Paypal's merchant bank is where the process is debited/credited in real life.  If the chargeback goes in favour of the buyer, the funds will go from seller back to the buyer through their Paypal accounts back to the original funding method.  Much the same as a refund when you've paid by card in the first place, the funds are sent back to where they came but by and via Paypal.  The transaction is in effect reversed.  There won't be a negative balance.