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Remote parking hearing tomorrow after a succesful CCJ set aside

24

Comments

  • Redx
    Redx Posts: 38,084 Forumite
    Eighth Anniversary 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    edited 12 January 2021 at 11:40AM
    It is also submitted a fortnight before any hearing

    The court order from your local court gives you the hearing date and tells you and the claimant to exchange your WS plus exhibits say 2 weeks before , plus a copy to the court. Check both sides of the court order from your local court , this has a statement of truth as well , so 2 submissions , not one , 2 statements of truth , one set of exhibits , plus a summary costs assessment

    I believe that you have failed to comply with the court order , which is what Bargepole and Umkomaas also believe

    Read your court orders carefully

    It seems that you have failed to submit a signed witness statement with a statement of truth , failed to submit exhibits , probably required last month

    Check the date on the Gladstone's bundle , yours was due at the same time , or earlier
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 155,731 Forumite
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    edited 12 January 2021 at 12:48PM
    A statement of truth is not the same as a Witness statement and evidence.

    A defence is not the same as a Witness statement and evidence.

    The NEWBIES thread tells you all this, and I have no idea why on earth you didn't read it again at each stage?

    When you got your hearing date, that Order told you to 'file and serve' all evidence you wish to rely upon, including witness statement(s) not less than 14 days before this hearing'.  You haven't done that but this is NOT a reason to pay UKCPM today!    You may as well attend the call and see what the Judge thinks of their evidence and case and at least get your head around how to argue against the false added 'debt recovery costs'.  Even if you lost, as long as the Judge ''gets'' that, you would pay LESS than the claim. 

    And you might still win if the Judge is not impressed with their case and you can then ask of your costs can be awarded (we assume you paid £255 for the CCJ set aside so you have that cost and two hearing costs, if you took days off work).  Don't forget to ask the Judge at the end - go for it, if by some miracle you win.

    We have no idea what your defence said.  

    Please could you refrain from starting new threads about the same case.  It would have been soooo much easier if you'd replied on one long thread so we could see all the context and previous stuff - such as the defence you put in.  Show us your defence then, what did you put in?  Word for word.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
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  • lethal_2
    lethal_2 Posts: 283 Forumite
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    edited 12 January 2021 at 1:34PM
    Thanks @Coupon-mad, makes a lot of sense!

    Re: A defence is not the same as a Witness statement and evidence.
    Based on what everyone's point of view on a WS is - I have somewhat argued my WS in my line of defences (see below). As per the request, here are the main arguments for my defence and question to the forum - could this be sufficient as my WS too? What should my next steps be? Should I change my argument that it should just be the initial £60 and not £354.24 (minus the N224 application cost)?

    Defence to the claim:

    Defendant would like to challenge the claim as they feel that the claimant is abusing the small claims track as a form of aggressive, automated debt collection.

    Please see the follow lines of defence:

    1. The Claimant issued a ticket to the Defendant in a residential apartment block where the Defendant had a valid parking permit but had simply fallen off the windscreen (and onto the dashboard upside down). Please see Appendix A which shows a picture provided by the Claimant of the incident itself.
    2. The Defendant had the appropriate authority to park in the Parking Bay in question and had initially displayed the correct permit on the day of the incident (Appendix B ).
    3. Please note, the Defendant was using a permit holder that was provided by the Claimant and therefore the lack of stickiness that was caused from the adverse winter temperature is the direct responsibility of the Claimant.  
    4. The Defendant submitted an appeal note to the Claimant within the timeframe instructed by the Claimant on the PCN. For the record, this was 11 days after the incident and within the 14-day timeline provided by the Claimant.
    5. The defendant received no follow up communication post their appeal note. It was later discovered that the Claimant had made a clerical error on their communication to the Defendant as they had misspelt the Defendant’s name on the outcome of the appeal note. For this reason, the Defendant was not aware of the outcome as the communication from the Claimant had been marked as spam and junk.
    6. UK Government publication highlight that the most common type of phishing (a fraudulent practice of sending communication purporting to be from of a reputable company in order to induce individuals to reveal personal information, such as passwords and credit card numbers) is spelling mistakes of personal date e.g. surname, and should be marked as a potential phishing attempt by a cybercriminals.
    7. Due to the clerical error from the Claimant, this communication should therefore be void as the Defendant was unable to validate the context of the message itself. For this reason, the Claimant did not carry out their duties as part of their contract as it was explicitly noted in the PCN that the Defendant would receive an outcome by the Claimant within a 28-day timeline. Therefore, the Claimant has breached their obligations as part of their initial contract that was set, and the entire claim should be withdrawn.

    8. The amount quoted by the Claimant is incorrect and is an abuse of the court process. The Defendant was informed in the PCN notice that in the event the appeal note was rejected, the Defendant would be liable for £60 and not the sum of £354.24 that the Claimant is challenging today

    9. Again, due to the Clerical error by the Claimant, follow up communications and court judgements had the same administrative error and therefore should be treated as void.

    .... there's more but it more generic stuff from the forum rather than related to the case at hand!

    Re: Cost Involved 
    Yes, my £255 N244 application were reserved based on the outcome of the claim so I will pick up then but during my set-aside hearing, I did challenge a day from work / travel to the courts, which was quickly rejected). By some miracle, if the outcome is positive tomorrow, can I request reimbursement for tomorrow's case to the claimant too. If so, how should I phrase this and when should I bring this up?
  • lethal_2
    lethal_2 Posts: 283 Forumite
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    edited 12 January 2021 at 2:23PM
    Please note, I have also attached the SoT to the defence of the clam so FYI and the N224 application that is within the bundle also has the following:



  • lethal_2
    lethal_2 Posts: 283 Forumite
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    edited 12 January 2021 at 4:06PM
    Anyone?  :/ #panicking
    I've just received a letter from the claimant saying they will not be attending the hearing so nay tips and advice would be much appreciated? 
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 155,731 Forumite
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    edited 12 January 2021 at 4:58PM
    Yes but you know that they will send a rep to the call - a hired legal rep.  Happens in every case unless they forget.  Why not read a shedload of winning cases by searching ANOTHER UKCPM ONE BITES THE DUST - that will show you how people have won and what Judges look for.

    could this be sufficient as my WS too?
    Yes but did you email an electronic version as well as sending a paper version?  You could do that tonight, to the claimant and court, so that if the Judge is (likely) working from home, he/she can see it all.  Attach all those Appendices as well.  Do this ANYWAY even if you emailed it months ago and don't apologise for lateness, just do it.

    Do some prep by reading winning cases and make yourself a note that if the Judge is with you (and I think your defence does stand as your evidence too, in your case) DON;T FORGET TO ASK FOR YOUR COSTS IN THE SPOT BEFORE PUTTING THE PHONE DOWN.

    You can win this case so do your best.  Call the Judge Sir or Madam.  They are used to people being unprepared and nervous and hopefully the decision will be fair.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
    Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • I made myself a folder with all my documents in different sections so I could flip to them as needed. I numbered them and stuck the index above my desk. This was handy as several times the rep and Judge needed guiding to different exhibits.

    I also did myself a sticky on how to address the judge and politely disagree ("as you wish") which was handy for when I felt tongue tied. Although the judge will know you're not legally trained, so just be polite and respectful and explain yourself as best as you can in your own words. You won't have to argue/debate the the PPCs legal rep. Usually the judge let's them speak, then you speak. You each get a turn and the Judge listens.

    I had 3 different Judges at each of my hearings, although the first was a little more stern than the others, they were all friendly enough and put me at ease. 

    Good luck!
  • lethal_2
    lethal_2 Posts: 283 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 100 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    edited 12 January 2021 at 7:08PM
    Yes but you know that they will send a rep to the call - a hired legal rep.  Happens in every case unless they forget.  Why not read a shedload of winning cases by searching ANOTHER UKCPM ONE BITES THE DUST - that will show you how people have won and what Judges look for.

    could this be sufficient as my WS too?
    Yes but did you email an electronic version as well as sending a paper version?  You could do that tonight, to the claimant and court, so that if the Judge is (likely) working from home, he/she can see it all.  Attach all those Appendices as well.  Do this ANYWAY even if you emailed it months ago and don't apologise for lateness, just do it.

    Do some prep by reading winning cases and make yourself a note that if the Judge is with you (and I think your defence does stand as your evidence too, in your case) DON;T FORGET TO ASK FOR YOUR COSTS IN THE SPOT BEFORE PUTTING THE PHONE DOWN.

    You can win this case so do your best.  Call the Judge Sir or Madam.  They are used to people being unprepared and nervous and hopefully the decision will be fair.
    Thats great advice. Regarding emailing now? In fact, I emailed (as well as posted) my defence last year in March which has my defence (as outline above( in full with appendices. This is also part of the bundle that has been supplied by the Claimant so they would all have access to this. When the judge asks me for my WS - Can I not say look at my Line of Defence or check the N224 Application statement which contains the full WS. Would this allow me to get by the conversation and focus on my key points?
  • nosferatu1001
    nosferatu1001 Posts: 12,961 Forumite
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    A WS is a statement by a witness, talking about facts. It is VERIFIED by a statement of truth. Same as a defence is VERIFUED by a SoT. Reading the newbies thread carefully cannot cause you to confuse the two. 

    As this was after a SET ASIDE it is possible the court did not Order you to file a WS. You know, we don't. 
  • Redx
    Redx Posts: 38,084 Forumite
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    edited 12 January 2021 at 7:11PM
    Either way , if the judge is at home or remote working , they may have no access to all the bundle , so do as coupon mad says anyway , no reason not to and if asked state you did it to assist the judge in these pandemic times (including a copy of the Defence)

    Ie , assume they have nothing
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