Very late (4 years) arrival of PCN for hired vehicle

Againstallfrauds

What am I asking:

Having used this forum twice before and having received valuable advice I would appreciate help in this case which I believe is unique because it refers to a hired vehicle and the PCN was given more than 4 years ago.

Having read through

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5378874/new-generation-parking-management-on-yellow-lines/p1

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5703794/civil-enforcement-and-a-lease-car-cancelled-the-pcn

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/69859059#Comment_69859059

and the relevant section on https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4816822/newbies-private-parking-ticket-old-or-new-read-these-faqs-first-thankyou I believe my case is still unique

Facts:

Hired vehicle and stayed overnight at Travelodge 03-04/ Febr 2016

Alledged offence: A PCN was issued on 04/02/2016 on private land owned or managed by Claimant. The vehicle was parked in breach of the Terms on Claimant's signs.

History of communication:

Received 1st letter by DCBL 1st May 2020 – Notice of debt recovery

Received 2nd letter by DCBL 21st may 2020 Pre Enforcement letter

Received 3th letter by DCBL 12th Oct 2020 – Letter of Claim

Received 4th letter Claim form - County Court Business Cenre, Northampton

Issue date 31 Dec 2020

Claimant CP PLUS LTD

Particulars of claim:

The vehicle was parked in breach of the Terms on Claimant's signs. The driver agreed to pay within 28 days but did not. Despite requestes the PCN is oustanding.

The contract entitles claimant to damages.

Claimed amount:

The total amount increased between letter 3 and 4 by 83% as they have increased the amount claimed adding on a court fee and legal representative costs

What I have done so far:

1) Enquiry at the site

I contacted the said Travelodge to verify the situation. I received the following response:

"this hotel has free parking on a first come first served basis but guests must register their car registration number at reception for free parking.

The operator for this carpark is Moto Services, if you need to contact them, you can use the following email address: motohotel@groupnexus.co.uk"

2) Enquiry at the hiring company

I contacted the hiring company and received the following repsonse:

"Should any traffic violation be incurred the issuing authority would contact..........and the customer's details would be given, subject to correct data protection procedures."

They confirmed that the same would apply for a parking ticket.

3) Enquiry at the DVLA

I contacted the DVLA to find out voia subject access request who and whne has requested my details in 2016 but have yet to receive a response due to Coronavirus delays.

My thoughts on this case:

1) I confirmed that I indeed stayed in the hotel in that period and confirmed that I have hired a vehicle during that period. I do not know whether it was the vehicle with the alledged offence and perhaps I should find out.

2) Since that period I have changed 3 addresses in England (I was transitioning between one adddress to the other on that journey) and I believe (but cannot confirm) I have timely updated my addresses with the DVLA.

Can the DVLA confirm the exact dates when I changed my registered address with them just in case?

3) I am in my current address since Dec 2016. This letter dated 1st May 2020 is the first letter I ever received from them. Norwithstanding any changes in address and lost letters I have been in this same address for 4 years now.

4) The claimant claims that I have agreed to pay. I am pretty certain I did not. In fact I would be in this forum straight away if that happened.

5) As the letter on 1st may 2020 was the first ever I received I have no photographic evidence and obviously no evidence of whether documentation and claims were made in time as required for their succesful claim.

Planned action:

I am planning to appeal within the 14 days from the date the letter was served (does this refer to working days or calendar days) in order to prepare my defence.

nosferatu1001

Hell no. That's not the right plan

you follow the newbies thread and TODAY file your AOS. Follow the instructions on the newbies thread

That will give you loads more time to write your defence (not appeal....) given there's a template which requires about #0 min of your time to adapt. 

First. Aos. Exactly as newbies instructs you. 

Coupon-mad

3) Enquiry at the.DVLA
 I contacted the DVLA to find out voia subject access request who and whne has requested my details in 2016 but have yet to receive a response due to Coronavirus delays.

No need to wait for that, obviously no request was made to the DVLA!  It's a hire vehicle.  The hire firm named you, not the DVLA.

The claimant claims that I have agreed to pay. I am pretty certain I did not. In fact I would be in this forum straight away if that happened.

Please, please, please, no.  Never again do I want to have to read people saying that.  We hate this naive focus on some normal wording.  What on  earth makes people think that normal phrase means they signed something to 'agree'...of course it doesn't mean that...yawn:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/77928612#Comment_77928612

As the letter on 1st may 2020 was the first ever I received I have no photographic evidence and obviously no evidence of whether documentation and claims were made in time as required for their succesful claim.

Well that will either be because the hire firm didn't name you until very late in the process or because they did, but gave the wrong address for you.  Send a SAR by email NOW to the hire firm and ask for all data relating to the hire of a vehicle on (approx dates) and the subsequent exchange between them and CP Plus. Remind them that they have 30 days to send this data to you, and of course don't wait for it because you must do your defence.

Planned action:
I am planning to appeal within the 14 days

Pardon?  You are neither appealing and nor is a defence needed within 14 days, as long as you do the AOS online first, that the NEWBIES thread shows you in pictures.  That buys a bit more time which then mean you might even get the two SAR replies back from the hire firm and the PPC (of course, SAR them. NOT DCBL).  

And if the SAR data doesn't come back before you need to get a defence in - so what, really?  You know where the TEMPLATE DEFENCE thread is and can crack on and get the SAR stuff arriving in time for your witness statement stage.  Perfect.

KeithP

Againstallfrauds said:

Received 4th letter Claim form - County Court Business Cenre, Northampton

Issue date 31 Dec 2020

With a Claim Issue Date of 31st December, you have until Tuesday 19th January to file an Acknowledgment of Service, but there is nothing to be gained by delaying it. 

To file an AoS, follow the guidance in the Dropbox file linked from the second post in the NEWBIES thread.

Having filed an AoS, you have until 4pm on Tuesday 2nd February 2021 to file your Defence.

That's three weeks away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence, but please don't leave it to the last minute.

To create a Defence, and then file a Defence by email, look again at the second post on the NEWBIES thread - immediately following where you found the Acknowledgment of Service instructions.

Don't miss the deadline for filing an Acknowledgment of Service, nor that for filing a Defence.

Againstallfrauds said:

4) The claimant claims that I have agreed to pay. I am pretty certain I did not. In fact I would be in this forum straight away if that happened.

That's standard stuff. They are alleging that by parking the driver agreed to the terms of the contract, i.e. the signs, that will have stated something like... "By not following these terms the driver agrees to pay £nn within 28 days of...".

Againstallfrauds

You guys are gold. I shall update you with my actions. I will follow through what you suggested.

Againstallfrauds

nosferatu1001 said:

Hell no. That's not the right plan

you follow the newbies thread and TODAY file your AOS. Follow the instructions on the newbies thread

That will give you loads more time to write your defence (not appeal....) given there's a template which requires about #0 min of your time to adapt. 

First. Aos. Exactly as newbies instructs you. 

Hello again and many thanks for taking the time to respond.

I believe by instructions you mean the "blue" template on the Newbies form that disputes the parking charge and requests for more evidence.

I am slightly uneasy who to send it to as I have received a County Court Claim form.
Do I send it to the legal team namely dcbl in this case (claim form mentions this would be the address for sending documents and payments)? For that i do indeed have an email address
or
The client of the legal team, namely Cp Plus Ltd in this case of which I do not have an email address as I never received a correspondence from them.
My intuition says the legal team but wish to confirm if possible before I press the send button as this cannot be reversed !

KeithP

Againstallfrauds said:

nosferatu1001 said:

Hell no. That's not the right plan

you follow the newbies thread and TODAY file your AOS. Follow the instructions on the newbies thread

That will give you loads more time to write your defence (not appeal....) given there's a template which requires about #0 min of your time to adapt. 

First. Aos. Exactly as newbies instructs you. 

I believe by instructions you mean the "blue" template on the Newbies form that disputes the parking charge and requests for more evidence.

I am slightly uneasy who to send it to as I have received a County Court Claim form.
Do I send it to the legal team namely dcbl in this case (claim form mentions this would be the address for sending documents and payments)? For that i do indeed have an email address
or
The client of the legal team, namely Cp Plus Ltd in this case of which I do not have an email address as I never received a correspondence from them.
My intuition says the legal team but wish to confirm if possible before I press the send button as this cannot be reversed !

No, you are totally misunderstanding the situation you are now in.

You need to write a Defence. You are not submitting an appeal.

Please read again what I wrote less than 24 hours ago - on 11 January at 11:57PM.

In that post I wrote:

To create a Defence, and then file a Defence by email, look again at the second post on the NEWBIES thread - immediately following where you found the Acknowledgment of Service instructions.

What exactly don't you understand?

As I said yesterday, the first thing to do is...

To file an AoS, follow the guidance in the Dropbox file linked from the second post in the NEWBIES thread.

Coupon-mad

I believe by instructions you mean the "blue" template on the Newbies form that disputes the parking charge and requests for more evidence

NO.
Why are you reading the first post about how to appeal a PCN?    Clearly, that's not your stage! 

Read the second post of the NEWBIES thread, about court and stop doing it wrong.  Look around you at all the other threads, everyone else with the 'same old same old' court claims we deal with every single day, is managing to read the court section and all the other newbies (none of them legally trained, and nor are we) are properly dealing with their claims and so can you if you calm down. 

KeithP gave you the information and direction already and yet, you are flailing.  Of course you aren't 'appealing a PCN'.

Your case is the same as all the rest. Just read the right section.  You were told by KeithP where it was.

Againstallfrauds

Ok, ok I found the right section and AOS done.
Now firing off SAR's.
Thank you for all your patience and guidance.

Againstallfrauds

Short updates

1. I sent the SAR to the parking company and co[ied the legal team (DCB L) as advised and received the following response:

we write to inform you that this case will not be put 'on hold' and will continue to proceed as normal. As such, all deadlines stipulated by the Court must be adhered to.

1. I have yet to receive an acknowldegment of my SAR from the parking company.

1. I also sent a SAR to the hiring company who requests a copy of my ID and proof of address. I thought the guidance said

You do NOT have to supply intrusive ID (intrusive = driving licence or Passport) so refuse that if they demand it, but you do have to show that you are the correct data subject. So attach a scan of your V5C if you still own the car, or if not, a utility bill to show your name and address.

Any advise on this matter please?

Umkomaas

1. I sent the SAR to the parking company and co[ied the legal team (DCB L) as advised and received the following response:

we write to inform you that this case will not be put 'on hold' and will continue to proceed as normal. As such, all deadlines stipulated by the Court must be adhered to.

Did you tell them that despite disputing that any debt exists, nonetheless you are seeking debt advice and requiring them to place the case on hold for at least 30 days, as per the Pre Action Protocol for Debt Advice (PaP). If you didn't, that's why you received that response. 

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/pdf/protocols/debt-pap.pdf