Stamp Duty Ending

Thrugelmir

Newnoel said:

The good news is that Parliament is now considering a six month extension:
Stamp duty holiday: Parliament forced to debate six-month extension (msn.com)

In reality, the government should abolish stamp duty completely as it is yet another tax on aspirational homeowners or those wanting to climb the property ladder 

Debating an issue as the result of a public petition doesn't mean that the Chancellor is going to take any action. 

Crashy_Time

SpiderLegs said:

Crashy_Time said:

SpiderLegs said:

Crashy_Time said:

Getting_greyer said:

Unless they was a tax band that meant for each additional £1 sold you pay £1.01+ in tax, I can't see how a sellers sdlt wouldn't just increase prices. Interesting though, I shall do some math on this. 

Prices are not really set by how much a buyer has to pay out in tax though are they? They can Kite Fly and try it on but it is the prevailing lending culture and general economy that really dictate prices.

Erm... 
So now you’re telling us that the stamp duty holiday had no effect on house prices and the last six months has all been about the ‘prevailing lending culture and general economy’.

oh and presumably when it comes back in in March that will have no effect either?

I’m beginning to think that the crashy_time account is run by about six different people who all think different things and never speak to each other. You guys should really get together and have a meeting sometime.

Obviously I meant to type "seller"

....which makes zero difference to what you wrote.

have you decided when the imminent closedown of the housing market is going to be yet?

How does a sellers tax liability affect what someone wants to pay them for their house?

Crashy_Time

mortgage_noob said:

As a FTB I'm hoping that stamp duty doesn't get extended. It's contributed to inflation of house prices that makes it even harder for FTB to get on the ladder. It's all well and good if you're already on the property ladder but after working so hard to save for a deposit to then seem a huge jump in prices cause my LTV to increase I'll be glad to see the back of it.   
I'm sure they'll push out some other buying scheme at some point so FTBs can buy at ridiculous prices. 

Exactly, at some point sellers have to pay it or the bubble will pop.

mrlegend123

I can't wait for the property tax (if the Gov implements it), about time the asset rich cash poor put their hands in their pockets in London and South-East. Imagine for example 0.45% of property value per year in London lol the extra money would deffo level up the north! 

Mickey666

Crashy_Time said:

SpiderLegs said:

Crashy_Time said:

SpiderLegs said:

Crashy_Time said:

Getting_greyer said:

Unless they was a tax band that meant for each additional £1 sold you pay £1.01+ in tax, I can't see how a sellers sdlt wouldn't just increase prices. Interesting though, I shall do some math on this. 

Prices are not really set by how much a buyer has to pay out in tax though are they? They can Kite Fly and try it on but it is the prevailing lending culture and general economy that really dictate prices.

Erm... 
So now you’re telling us that the stamp duty holiday had no effect on house prices and the last six months has all been about the ‘prevailing lending culture and general economy’.

oh and presumably when it comes back in in March that will have no effect either?

I’m beginning to think that the crashy_time account is run by about six different people who all think different things and never speak to each other. You guys should really get together and have a meeting sometime.

Obviously I meant to type "seller"

....which makes zero difference to what you wrote.

have you decided when the imminent closedown of the housing market is going to be yet?

How does a sellers tax liability affect what someone wants to pay them for their house?

It probably doesn't, especially someone like you who doesn't want to pay any current prices for a house.

But turn the question around - how do you think a sellers tax liability will affect what someone will accept for their house?

Mickey666

Angela_D_3 said:

Mickey666 said:

retepetsir said:

mrlegend123 said:

retepetsir said:

mrlegend123 said:

retepetsir said:

They are looking at the idea of a property levy now, based on current values, instead of Council Tax and Stamp Duty. That will definitely hurt me in the South East!

good, why should up north pay more than down south?

Areas like Middlesbrough and Hartlepool paying more council tax than the south - wrong!! 

Do they? I'm not talking about London here. The prices were also lower up North at the time bands were set, so that is rubbish. The rates here in Sussex are lower.
I don't fully agree with replacing the Council Tax charge completely though. 
As an example - typical 3-bedroom house in Sussex, Band D, I would expect further north this to be a C or B?

Yes, say Portsmouth for example, Band D £ 1732 and Hartlepool Band D £2090.
Portsmouth Property Prices £240,000
Hartlepool Property Prices £105,000
I can't wait for the Government to introduce the property tax based on property prices (if they do).....the southerners will have to find the extra money from somewhere  

But would the banding not then vary too?

It's also based on density, I would argue the density of people in the South is much higher. 

Quite possibly, but where would you set the north/south divide (no jokes please)?  And what about varying the banding between town and country.  And yes, population density, might need to adjust for that as well.  See how complicated and arbitrary it's all getting?

Besides, imagine two people, same job, same income.  One blows all his spare cash on the horses and booze and rents a bedsit, one scrapes by to buy himself a nice house.  All of a sudden, the person with the nice house (all paid for with taxed money of course) is hit with a property tax.  Is that fair?

Well yes it is fair because one has an asset and the other doesnt.  

The boozing one who sounds far more fun is probably paying more in VAT anyway 

A tax system to reward the feckless?  Nice.

mrlegend123

Mickey666 said:

Angela_D_3 said:

Mickey666 said:

retepetsir said:

mrlegend123 said:

retepetsir said:

mrlegend123 said:

retepetsir said:

They are looking at the idea of a property levy now, based on current values, instead of Council Tax and Stamp Duty. That will definitely hurt me in the South East!

good, why should up north pay more than down south?

Areas like Middlesbrough and Hartlepool paying more council tax than the south - wrong!! 

Do they? I'm not talking about London here. The prices were also lower up North at the time bands were set, so that is rubbish. The rates here in Sussex are lower.
I don't fully agree with replacing the Council Tax charge completely though. 
As an example - typical 3-bedroom house in Sussex, Band D, I would expect further north this to be a C or B?

Yes, say Portsmouth for example, Band D £ 1732 and Hartlepool Band D £2090.
Portsmouth Property Prices £240,000
Hartlepool Property Prices £105,000
I can't wait for the Government to introduce the property tax based on property prices (if they do).....the southerners will have to find the extra money from somewhere  

But would the banding not then vary too?

It's also based on density, I would argue the density of people in the South is much higher. 

Quite possibly, but where would you set the north/south divide (no jokes please)?  And what about varying the banding between town and country.  And yes, population density, might need to adjust for that as well.  See how complicated and arbitrary it's all getting?

Besides, imagine two people, same job, same income.  One blows all his spare cash on the horses and booze and rents a bedsit, one scrapes by to buy himself a nice house.  All of a sudden, the person with the nice house (all paid for with taxed money of course) is hit with a property tax.  Is that fair?

Well yes it is fair because one has an asset and the other doesnt.  

The boozing one who sounds far more fun is probably paying more in VAT anyway 

A tax system to reward the feckless?  Nice.

Same as payment holidays for mortgage holders and nothing for renters........property tax is great for the South tho

Angela_D_3

Mickey666 said:

Angela_D_3 said:

Mickey666 said:

retepetsir said:

mrlegend123 said:

retepetsir said:

mrlegend123 said:

retepetsir said:

They are looking at the idea of a property levy now, based on current values, instead of Council Tax and Stamp Duty. That will definitely hurt me in the South East!

good, why should up north pay more than down south?

Areas like Middlesbrough and Hartlepool paying more council tax than the south - wrong!! 

Do they? I'm not talking about London here. The prices were also lower up North at the time bands were set, so that is rubbish. The rates here in Sussex are lower.
I don't fully agree with replacing the Council Tax charge completely though. 
As an example - typical 3-bedroom house in Sussex, Band D, I would expect further north this to be a C or B?

Yes, say Portsmouth for example, Band D £ 1732 and Hartlepool Band D £2090.
Portsmouth Property Prices £240,000
Hartlepool Property Prices £105,000
I can't wait for the Government to introduce the property tax based on property prices (if they do).....the southerners will have to find the extra money from somewhere  

But would the banding not then vary too?

It's also based on density, I would argue the density of people in the South is much higher. 

Quite possibly, but where would you set the north/south divide (no jokes please)?  And what about varying the banding between town and country.  And yes, population density, might need to adjust for that as well.  See how complicated and arbitrary it's all getting?

Besides, imagine two people, same job, same income.  One blows all his spare cash on the horses and booze and rents a bedsit, one scrapes by to buy himself a nice house.  All of a sudden, the person with the nice house (all paid for with taxed money of course) is hit with a property tax.  Is that fair?

Well yes it is fair because one has an asset and the other doesnt.  

The boozing one who sounds far more fun is probably paying more in VAT anyway 

A tax system to reward the feckless?  Nice.

As aposed to currently rewarding the idle rich 

SpiderLegs

Crashy_Time said:

SpiderLegs said:

Crashy_Time said:

SpiderLegs said:

Crashy_Time said:

Getting_greyer said:

Unless they was a tax band that meant for each additional £1 sold you pay £1.01+ in tax, I can't see how a sellers sdlt wouldn't just increase prices. Interesting though, I shall do some math on this. 

Prices are not really set by how much a buyer has to pay out in tax though are they? They can Kite Fly and try it on but it is the prevailing lending culture and general economy that really dictate prices.

Erm... 
So now you’re telling us that the stamp duty holiday had no effect on house prices and the last six months has all been about the ‘prevailing lending culture and general economy’.

oh and presumably when it comes back in in March that will have no effect either?

I’m beginning to think that the crashy_time account is run by about six different people who all think different things and never speak to each other. You guys should really get together and have a meeting sometime.

Obviously I meant to type "seller"

....which makes zero difference to what you wrote.

have you decided when the imminent closedown of the housing market is going to be yet?

How does a sellers tax liability affect what someone wants to pay them for their house?

I don’t think it does.
do you think the SDLT holiday has had an effect on prices or not?

have you decided when the housing market will be shut down yet?

have you decided what the % change in house prices will be this year? Or five years? Or ten years?

Crashy_Time

IMO they will reintroduce it for buyers in a month or two, if that is obviously failing to bring in enough revenue they will want sellers to pay it, and if sellers just stop moving so much (transactions were at half their peak pre-Covid anyway) they will explore a property tax. If Covid persists though it won`t matter what they do, the economy is going to have to re-adjust to the new normal, this will probably mean a LOT less people moving house at bubble prices.