Should I get solar PV, or a renewable energy supplier?

PeelyPeel

Fantastic points everyone. I have enjoyed reading these responses!

Mister_G said:

We use an average of 20kWh per day

I think I missed the tone of your first reply, so thanks for clarifying. I thought I had room for a larger solar array, but i'm getting some quotes back now and they are suggesting that I can only get a normal and maybe even on the small side setup, which is a disappointment.

Verdigris said:

Finding means of reducing consumption is the best first step.

Planet is before cost, but of course to a reasonable amount. I could rip up all my floors and run underfloor heating, get air source, and add an extra layer of insulation to my walls. But that be prohibitively expensive. I think your right that reducing my use will be a better first step. But also replacing my very old double glazing so I cut down on heating (And thus gas) might be a better use of my money.

ASavvyBuyer said:

Also, it may be worth considering Ripple Energy & Abundance 

Fantastic suggestions! Invest in people who know what they hell they are doing in the green space. Very much food for thought.

Grumpy_chap said:

What is a "renewable" energy supplier via the grid?

A company that buys more renewable energy than they sell. If they only bring renewable energy onto the grid, and I only buy their energy, I am defacto using green energy.

[Deleted User]

PeelyPeel said:

A company that buys more renewable energy than they sell. If they only bring renewable energy onto the grid, and I only buy their energy, I am defacto using green energy.

I think that is a bit of a stretch. Yes, you are paying for green energy and the green energy that you pay for is being added to the Grid. As I post, 8% of our electricity is coming from coal. If you happen to live next to that coal generator then it is likely what you are using is anything but green energy. Conversely, if someone happens to live close to a large solar array - and chooses not to pay for renewable energy - then they may be getting a high percentage of their energy from the nearby array.  The answer lies in 100% renewable energy but I do not see happening anytime soon.

PV Solar (I have a 7kWp array) and wind turbines are great; however, when the sun doesn't shine and the wind doesn't blow they are not reliable generators. In this regard, The National Grid has just issued another Emergency Margin Notice:
Quote: There are cont'd tight margins on the electricity system owing to colder temps, renewable output levels & generator availability over periods with higher demand. While we have enough generation to meet demand, we've issued an electricity margin notice (EMN) for Wed evening [1/3] Unquote

These EMNs are becoming all too common. Those who are fortunate to have a home battery with an export capability are getting paid between £1 and 1.50 per kWh exported to the Grid.

matelodave

there you go if you want to see where its coming from - http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/ so you work out what parts you are getting that's green (even biomass emits carbon and is only renewable if you can plant and grow as many trees as you are using.

Its a bit like trying to recover the baking soda from a cake once it's been cooked.

Regars Dolor's comment about getting £1 - £1.50/kwh from exports if you've got a battery, it's gonna take a long long time to get your money back - last time I looked they were costing around £8k+ for not a great deal of storage capacity

[Deleted User]

matelodave said:

Regars Dolor's comment about getting £1 - £1.50/kwh from exports if you've got a battery, it's gonna take a long long time to get your money back - last time I looked they were costing around £8k+ for not a great deal of storage capacity

I agree that a battery on its own makes little financial sense. However, a battery with PV Solar (based on PV size; cost and home usage) can break even in less than 20 years on today's energy prices - even without the ability to force export. I use about 600kWhs of electricity per year from the Grid at 5p/kWh. The rest comes off the roof. I get paid SEG for all that I export, and from April through to October all my hot water heating also comes from solar rather than gas.

matelodave

Dolor said:

matelodave said:

Regars Dolor's comment about getting £1 - £1.50/kwh from exports if you've got a battery, it's gonna take a long long time to get your money back - last time I looked they were costing around £8k+ for not a great deal of storage capacity

I agree that a battery on its own makes little financial sense. However, a battery with PV Solar (based on PV size; cost and home usage) can break even in less than 20 years on today's energy prices - even without the ability to force export. I use about 600kWhs of electricity per year from the Grid at 5p/kWh. The rest comes off the roof. I get paid SEG for all that I export, and from April through to October all my hot water heating also comes from solar rather than gas.

I'd have had to buy mine at least ten years ago to give me a good chance of it paying back over 20 years, I'd now be pushing my luck to take on a 20 year investment at my age and be pretty confident that, even if I did, that I'd still be living here and not in a residential home by then.
I'm pretty confident that my heatpump has paid for itself in the ten years that I've had it, in reduced fuel costs plus £5k of RHI though. I've now just got to contemplate how long either it or me lasts to see if it was a real long term investment 

Slinky

Regarding replacing your only 10 year old double glazing, how much will that actually improve your energy efficiency compared with the carbon footprint created by making the replacement windows?  I doubt there really is a significant difference in the window tech from 10 years ago to now that's worth paying thousands of pounds for.

matelodave

As alluded to above, the incremental benefit of pulling out something that was fairly good compared with the latest isn't really going to help all that much so you end up in the realm of significant extra costs versus diminishing returns.

You really need to do the sums (based on heat losses) between the windows you've got and new shiny super-duper, low E, argon filled glazing and then work out really how much energy they'll actually save as well as how much cost they save you compared with the outlay. You could go the whole hog and fit triple glazing but you are really increasing the costs. 
Also bear in mind that the heat loss through all of your windows is still less that that through your walls and roof, so even a significant improvement on the heat loss through your windows will only be a proportion of you total heatloss

A 10% improvement on your heating bill, even assuming that you spend £1000 a year heating your home (which you probably don't) would save you £100 a year, divide that into the £5-7K that new windows could cost and see what you get.

Gerry1

Dolor said:

The National Grid has just issued another Emergency Margin Notice:
Quote: There are cont'd tight margins on the electricity system owing to colder temps, renewable output levels & generator availability over periods with higher demand. While we have enough generation to meet demand, we've issued an electricity margin notice (EMN) for Wed evening [1/3] Unquote
These EMNs are becoming all too common. Those who are fortunate to have a home battery with an export capability are getting paid between £1 and 1.50 per kWh exported to the Grid.

And that electricity margin notice (EMN) for tonight explains why smart meters are being rolled out with all sorts of fines for energy suppliers that miss their targets.  You thought that the nice government was desperately keen to install smart meters costing £475 just to save you £11 per year?  Ha ha !  In due course you'll find that your smart meter will dictate when and how much energy you can use at critical times.

If surge pricing doesn't do the trick then Load Limiting and Load Shedding will enforce the restrictions, just as has been the case in southern Africa for several years.  It'll make a walk by the reservoir seem like a picnic !

Verdigris

If surge pricing doesn't do the trick then Load Limiting and Load Shedding will enforce the restrictions

Still preferable to the whole grid going down, as happened in Pakistan the other day.

Gerry1

Verdigris said:

If surge pricing doesn't do the trick then Load Limiting and Load Shedding will enforce the restrictions

Still preferable to the whole grid going down, as happened in Pakistan the other day.

Perhaps, but they should be open and honest about the real reasons, not pretend that smart meters are the best thing since sliced bread.