Noisy ground floor neighbour - options?

tghe-retford

I am in a first floor council flat with a neighbour underneath me. He has increasingly been both getting louder in terms of what he plays during the day and into the early hours of the morning in both the living room and bedroom (I suspect he has mounted his speakers to the wall during lockdown last year). So loud, I know he owns a PlayStation 4 without entering or looking into his house because I recognise the user interface sounds! He is that loud.

I have asked him to turn down his music and TV before. He says "ok" but that's it, it's all taken on deaf ears and I may as well be talking to a wall. I can't keep asking him all the time because it will come across as harassing and I will be the one who gets in trouble. I have considered writing a letter to him but I can't think of the best way to write it without either having the letter get scrunched up and thrown in the bin or it be shown to other neighbours demonstrating how much of a fusspot I am being. I have spoken to the other neighbours and they say they don't hear him but that's because they have an air gap between him and them, plus they're on good terms with him. I also don't want to fight fire with fire by having my sound up because a) I detest loud music and b) I'd be the one facing grief and escalation for doing it.

I have also asked the council for advice. They told me to move. That's it. Nothing else, just move. The problem is, I'm a single male without kids so would be at the bottom of the list when it comes to the waiting list and it would take a long time before I get anywhere. The price of rent can be up to double the cost for what I have now if I go private. Plus the cost of moving and I was also told by the council that whether I move to council or private housing, there is no guarantee that you will face the same loud noisy neighbour issues elsewhere - basically, I was told to put up with it or spin the wheel and and take a risk elsewhere. At this point, it's pretty much anything goes when it comes to what people are allowed to do on their property. And no, I have no-one else to move in with, I am literary on my own.

In terms of options, I have bought earplugs in bulk and that allows me to sleep. They limit but do not eliminate the noise. He is either now on furlough or has been made redundant. I am luckily on annual leave this week (considering my line of work, sleep and rest is important) and having woken up during the night this week, I found out that he is awake during the night playing video games until about 5am. He wakes up around 9-10am and then its music followed by TV and movies through the day into the evening and the late night. He is from what I can deduce, someone who can get on with 4-6 hours of sleep (Margaret Thatcher was reportedly the same) or leaves his TV on with the sound on (tinnitus? I know of someone who did that to help them sleep). So now I face up to 20 hours a day of this at a time when we are told to "stay at home" to protect the NHS.

I also have active noise cancelling headphones. Again, they limit but do not eliminate the noise. I am now wearing these all day until bedtime just to filter out his noise with both the TV and headphones on. I made sure to invest in AptX Low Latency headphones and transmitter to ensure that the TV and sound are in sync so as not to cause an annoying echo.

The other thing I have seen is the concept of airborne acoustic underlay tiles. I currently have standard underlay and carpets within. The cost and weight is an issue. As I stated before, I live alone. Looking into the numbers of tiles I need, it would cost £1k to purchase and the weight would be an issue - 22kg a tile, left on the kerb and I would have to get them inside - one by one. Getting a professional to install them would also cost a pretty penny, far more than the carpet that I had put in. Even then, I don't know how effective it would be. My neighbour has an annoying habit during summer of turning up his music up to maximum and opening all the doors and windows allowing it to stream outside (even this doesn't faze the other neighbours). I am obviously limited in any other options because as I mentioned, I live in council housing.

Are there any other options I have missed? I'm loathed to move as I have been here for about 15 years and while I have had the odd situation when I first moved in, it was nowhere near the level things are now, the few neighbours who have lived there have been fine and considerate until he moved in a couple of years ago (I am a very patient person but since lockdown, he is getting gradually worse). It would also punish me financially for not being loud and inconsiderate, a mockery and total reversal of natural justice.

FaceHead

There are no soundproofing options that will be effective. The advice you've received from the council is quite right. 

Your choices are to rent the flat you live in, or rent a different flat (probably privately). Your choice - evaluate the cost of moving and decide if that cost is worth paying for the possible benefit of better neighbors. If that cost is not worth paying, send your money on something else. I wish life was fair, but alas it is not.

anselld

The Council will have a specific department who deal with noise complaints, probably not the people who have advised you so far.  Search your Council website and make a formal complaint.  The Council do have the power to issue noise abatement notices and to confiscate equipment if necessary from the perpetrators.  It is a question of finding the right department and persuading them to do something (which may be more difficult during lockdown).

moneysavinghero

Either wait for him to move (no knowing how long that could be), or move yourself. 

Norman_Castle

Soundproofing the floor would benefit him but is unlikely to make much of an improvement for you. Exactly how loud is it if it can be heard through noise cancelling headphones? I've combined talk radio and earplugs to allow me to sleep. The earplugs muffle the radio and make it difficult to distinguish between it and other noise. If it bothers this neighbour thats a bonus.

You will have a housing officer, ask to speak to them and ideally for them to visit and witness the noise. Most councils advise downloading this https://www.thenoiseapp.com/#/ to provide evidence although it has some poor reviews and often doesn't reflect how bad the problem is. Try it and see what your phone records.

Your neighbour sounds like an idiot. Its possible the noise is always loud but its far more noticeable with the windows open.

tghe-retford

@FaceHead and @moneysavinghero - the cost of moving is going to be something, maybe one to speak to my friend about as he has done so before (he lives a long way away now with a family before anyone suggests moving in with him) so will have an idea. Again, as I stated, that is an absolute last resort, not just on cost terms, but also on principle.

@anselid and @Norman_Castle - I have been reluctant to go to the council unless things go downhill, like they did with a fellow neighbour and her nuisance neighbour who really made her life hell in the interim whilst the nuisance neighbour was being investigated, thankfully the nuisance has been evicted (as an aside, the nuisance neighbour now lives a few doors down from my mother - sigh!). I get the impression my council would rather deal with such issues in the sense of 'I'm hoping they won't cause a fuss and have to get us to spend resources at a time we can't afford it', particularly in this situation of lockdown and spending squeezes as a result. I will speak to my housing officer and go from there. In terms of the app, I can understand why people have given it bad reviews. Microphones on mobile phones are designed for close range pick-up of sounds and do terribly poorly when picking up ambient, airborne sound (for obvious reasons, it would distract the listener at the other end of the phone from the speaker). I could get a decent microphone that records ambient, airborne sounds which would demonstrate but that would cost money and more than likely, the council may provide on as part of any investigation.

Norman, as for how loud he sounds with active noise cancelling headphones, it's when he really cranks it up. We're talking full blast with the music, windows and doors open in the summer levels - even with TV audio going through my headphones. Also, I did see your advice in a separate thread about listening to a talk radio station while researching this topic earlier today. I haven't tried that but I do have to be careful because I have another neighbour who is no problem to me and I don't want to be too loud for them!

coffeehound

Your HA will have an Antisocial Behaviour Team;  you can get their email from your customer services desk.  Since the neighbour is in breach of the terms of his contract, they should act on it.  The problem at the moment is they won't be able to visit in person, but perhaps they can send a stiffly-worded letter that will get his attention.

elsien

I’d talk to him first. But I’d do it at a time when his music was particularly loud then invite him round to hear it. 

His response will tell you whether he genuinely didn’t believe the levels in your flat, or either he really doesn’t care. If the latter then plan B would be back to the council, as above, 

lesalanos

tghe-retford said:

@FaceHead and @moneysavinghero - the cost of moving is going to be something, maybe one to speak to my friend about as he has done so before (he lives a long way away now with a family before anyone suggests moving in with him) so will have an idea. Again, as I stated, that is an absolute last resort, not just on cost terms, but also on principle.

@anselid and @Norman_Castle - I have been reluctant to go to the council unless things go downhill, like they did with a fellow neighbour and her nuisance neighbour who really made her life hell in the interim whilst the nuisance neighbour was being investigated, thankfully the nuisance has been evicted (as an aside, the nuisance neighbour now lives a few doors down from my mother - sigh!). I get the impression my council would rather deal with such issues in the sense of 'I'm hoping they won't cause a fuss and have to get us to spend resources at a time we can't afford it', particularly in this situation of lockdown and spending squeezes as a result. I will speak to my housing officer and go from there. In terms of the app, I can understand why people have given it bad reviews. Microphones on mobile phones are designed for close range pick-up of sounds and do terribly poorly when picking up ambient, airborne sound (for obvious reasons, it would distract the listener at the other end of the phone from the speaker). I could get a decent microphone that records ambient, airborne sounds which would demonstrate but that would cost money and more than likely, the council may provide on as part of any investigation.

Norman, as for how loud he sounds with active noise cancelling headphones, it's when he really cranks it up. We're talking full blast with the music, windows and doors open in the summer levels - even with TV audio going through my headphones. Also, I did see your advice in a separate thread about listening to a talk radio station while researching this topic earlier today. I haven't tried that but I do have to be careful because I have another neighbour who is no problem to me and I don't want to be too loud for them!

Prioritise your mental health over "principles" and move

The EH will just send you a noise measuring device first so they will not even know that they are being investigated 

t0rt0ise

Look at the Homeswapper website for a flat swap. There's no priority list for swapping, you just find someone that wants to swap and providing your rent is fully paid and you're not a disruptive tenant, they have to give you permission to move. It's a brilliant system, I used it a few years ago. https://www.homeswapper.co.uk/

moneysavinghero

In terms of the costs to move - think yourself lucky that you don't own the flat. A lot of people end up with bad neighbours that move in next door to the property that they own. Their lives become so much of a living hell that the costs of moving (sometimes even having to take a large loss on the cost of the house) become worth it just to get their life back.