What are these lights telling me?

Manxman_in_exile

I'll probably be told to re-read my Highway code but never mind...

I was reading a thread on Pepipoo about someone getting a ticket for going through what they thought were a "second" set of lights for a junction they'd just gone through on green.  In fact it looks like the lights they went through were unconnected with the junction and were for an entirely separate (but badly positioned?) pedestrian crossing.  http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=137615

It made me think of a somewhat similar set-up near me where I often find myself thinking "Have I gone through a red light there - should I have stopped?"

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Unthank+Rd,+Norwich/@52.6086322,1.2515761,3a,37.5y,244.67h,93.92t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sjo9iSFqpQ5CD9jukdXo21Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!4m5!3m4!1s0x47d9e14f740d7579:0xbf68d1f13e12545e!8m2!3d52.6199143!4d1.2695229?hl=en         (Hope that link works - I'm not good on Google street view)

The pedestrian crossing is the one the VW beetle has just gone through, just past Stratford's.  Now if I'm travelling in the direction of this GSV (ie past Stratford's and in the direction the VW has just come from) at this point I've just gone through lights at a junction and the pedestrian crossing is about 20 metres after the junction.  As you can see, there is no light facing you on the lefthand side, but there is one on the righthand side, just above the VW.  If there is no need for a light facing you on the lefthand side (presumably because it's not a separate crossing but is part of the junction), for whom is the light on the righthand side intended?  I'm sure I've gone in this direction of travel through the junction on green, and then seen the light on the righthand side turn red and thought "Am I meant to stop or not?"  So far I haven't stopped because there's no light for me on the lefthand side - or at least that is what I've told myself.

I suppose the lights at the crossing should be synchronised with those at the junction, but I'm not sure they are.  The crossing is not immediately after the junction and I'm sure I've seen the light on the righthand side change after going through the junction but before reaching the crossing.

The one on Pepipoo is clearer because that crossing has its own Stop Line.

It's just that when approaching the crossing and you see the righthand light suddenly turn red you automatically think to stop - but there's no red light on your side of the road.

RichardD1970

From what I can see the light that the VW Beetle has just gone through is part of the junction, not a separate crossing, so would show the same as the light by the pink shop.

Looking again it's set that far back because of the offset of the junction.

Scrapit

One stop line, thats where you stop.

Car_54

RichardD1970 said:

From what I can see the light that the VW Beetle has just gone through is part of the junction, not a separate crossing, so would show the same as the light by the pink shop.

Looking again it's set that far back because of the offset of the junction.

Agreed. It is not a ped crossing.

The light on the right is a secondary light for traffic approaching from Eaton Street (straight on).

Manxman_in_exile

Car_54 said:

RichardD1970 said:

From what I can see the light that the VW Beetle has just gone through is part of the junction, not a separate crossing, so would show the same as the light by the pink shop.

Looking again it's set that far back because of the offset of the junction.

Agreed. It is not a ped crossing.

The light on the right is a secondary light for traffic approaching from Eaton Street (straight on).

It's not a pedestrian crossing?  There are push buttons for pedestrians on the light poles and there are studs in the road.  Isn't that a crossing?  ***

I can understand the light on the right being a secondary light for the preceding junction (indeed that's what I've always taken it to be), but if one is needed on the right, why not one on the left?

***  Ah!  Just re-read Richard1970's post.  I presume you are agreeing with him that it is not a crossing that is separate from the junction, and it's lights ought to be synchronised with the junction's lights.  Understood.

Manxman_in_exile

RichardD1970 said:

From what I can see the light that the VW Beetle has just gone through is part of the junction, not a separate crossing, so would show the same as the light by the pink shop.

Looking again it's set that far back because of the offset of the junction.

Thanks.  I'm happy to accept that the secondary light at the crossing should be showing the same as the primary lights at the junction (outside the pink shop and outside the white shop RJL opposite) and I can now see why the off-set at the junction means the crossing lights are so far back after the junction.  (In fact it's bleedin' obvious now you've mentioned it   )

I think the difficulty I've got is that if the two sets of lights are perfectly synchronised, then the distance between them means that you can go through the junction on green and the secondary light on the right can go red before you reach it.  It's disconcerting to be arriving at a crossing and find what you thought was a green light turning red.  Or perhaps my mind is playing tricks on me and that isn't happening - or perhaps I'm cutting going through the junction on green too fine and it isn't really green when I go through!

But why is there a secondary light only on the right and not on the left?  I know Car54 has suggested it's for traffic going straight-on, but surely the proper place for that is on the left (where there is no light) rather than on the right?

This junction is on one of my daily running routes.  I'll have closer look at it later - I'm beginning to think my familiarity with it is making me see things that aren't there, or not see things that are there!

Thanks all.

Homer_home

I think you answered your own question there, it isn't really green when you go through!

That junction has a pretty standard set up , at some point all the lights to cars will turn red so the pedestrian crossings can turn green to allow pedestrians to cross safely , there are hundreds of cross roads up and down the country like this in fact my first set of cross roads on my commute to work has this exact same set up as it is a busy junction (observe the lights for a period of time and you will see this happen)

So yes in summary I would suggest you read the highway code especially as you seem to think it is ok to go through a red light 

Supersonos

You stop at the stop line when the light is red.  If there's a stop line, you stop at it.  If not, you don't.

Car_54

Manxman_in_exile said:

RichardD1970 said:

From what I can see the light that the VW Beetle has just gone through is part of the junction, not a separate crossing, so would show the same as the light by the pink shop.

Looking again it's set that far back because of the offset of the junction.

I think the difficulty I've got is that if the two sets of lights are perfectly synchronised, then the distance between them means that you can go through the junction on green and the secondary light on the right can go red before you reach it.  It's disconcerting to be arriving at a crossing and find what you thought was a green light turning red.  Or perhaps my mind is playing tricks on me and that isn't happening - or perhaps I'm cutting going through the junction on green too fine and it isn't really green when I go through!

The distance is immaterial - it's the same at any junction with secondary light(s).

The status of the lights determines whether you can cross the stop line. Once you've cleared the line, they no longer apply to you.

Manxman_in_exile

Homer_home said:

So yes in summary I would suggest you read the highway code especially as you seem to think it is ok to go through a red light 

Did I say that I did?

Manxman_in_exile

OK.  So most of what people have said I understand and agree with - once I'm over the stop line at the junction on green I'm basically ok to go over the crossing.  But why is there a secondary light only on the righthand side of the road and not the lefthand side?  If anything it would make more sense to be on the left and not the right, surely?