A cashless society - peer to peer payments?

Mickey666

barnstar2077 said:

cricidmuslibale said:

If Covid really is being used as a weapon in that way then that is entirely wrong in what is supposed to be a free country (i.e. the UK)! One of the key principles of living in a western democracy is that, unlike in a totalitarian state like China, the citizens of that democratic country should be free to choose whether this is at all practicable. Clearly using cash as opposed to other payment methods is an entirely feasible method of payment, especially when this pandemic has been brought under control, and as long as people clearly wish to use cash then it should be available for use by them!  Restricting or worse still abolishing the use of cash when it is quite clear that some people, particularly but not exclusively by any means the elderly, wish to use cash on a regular basis is quite simply entirely wrong and any properly democratic and accountable government surely would not allow this to happen!

P.S. If you want to really cheese off your most reliable voters (the elderly and those living in rural areas) then a Tory government abolishing or restricting the use of cash is a sure fire way of doing just that!

I don't think it could be abolished any time soon, but anyone who is under thirty now isn't going to care about it being done away with in the future.  I for one am glad that my local buses all take cards now, as do the vending machines at work.  Saves me a lot of bother. 

I agree.  I can't honestly see cash being done away with anytime in the near future but I can see it almost disappearing through preference.  Cheques have not been withdrawn but their use today is very much reduced compared to last century.  I'd guess cash is going to go the same way - it'll still be around but used far, far less simply by natural prgression rather than any concerted conspiracy.

After all, it's still possible to send faxes but how often does that happen today?  Heck, it's even possible to send a telegram if you really insist!  These sorts of things don't get banned, only superseded.  Cash is going to follow that well worn parth.

cricidmuslibale

There's something uniquely pleasurable to me at least in having a number of banknotes or a number of copper, silver or gold coins in ones wallet and having the option to spend them as required or indeed save them if wished. For me at least both banknotes and coins are simply lovely to look at even temporarily in a way that an electronic balance on a card or in a PayPal account never ever will be! In a similar way I much prefer to have my music on CD, vinyl and cassette rather than via a streaming service or downloaded! It's simply a case of a natural preference (in my case) for a physical object over a virtual alternative whenever and wherever this is feasible. I know I'm far from the only person that feels this way so is/are there any justifiable reason(s) why those of us that prefer to handle the real as opposed to the virtual should be unfairly discriminated against!?

NottinghamKnight

cricidmuslibale said:

There's something uniquely pleasurable to me at least in having a number of banknotes or a number of copper, silver or gold coins in ones wallet and having the option to spend them as required or indeed save them if wished. For me at least both banknotes and coins are simply lovely to look at even temporarily in a way that an electronic balance on a card or in a PayPal account never ever will be! In a similar way I much prefer to have my music on CD, vinyl and cassette rather than via a streaming service or downloaded! It's simply a case of a natural preference (in my case) for a physical object over a virtual alternative whenever and wherever this is feasible. I know I'm far from the only person that feels this way so is/are there any justifiable reason(s) why those of us that prefer to handle the real as opposed to the virtual should be unfairly discriminated against!?

There's no prospect of cash being abolished any time soon, but it may well get more expensive to use cash than other means, so that would be the choice. Many people dismissed tape and/ or CDs when they came out claiming that only vinyl was authentic. No one is being discriminated against but there may well be a cost for exercising that choice even when times return to something like normal. 

cricidmuslibale

I'm not advocating gambling here but I do occasionally enjoy playing on the 'penny falls' machines at amusement arcades particularly by the seaside. I also used to enjoy the classic coin-operated fruit machines in the days when it was possible to win money overall if you really knew what you were doing. [These days modern fruit machines are so sophisticated and cleverly put together that you nearly always lose and you can lose a lot of money if you use them for an extended period of time.] Both 'penny falls' machines and fruit machines usually require the inputting of coins. As do the classic arcade games and pinball machines for example. I'm not sure that e.g. the local economy in classic seaside towns such as Blackpool, Brighton, Great Yarmouth, Margate, Rhyl, Scarborough, Southport etc would do quite so well if cash was abolished!

P.S. The fact that ITV currently broadcast a popular game show "Tipping Point" which is very clearly based on 'penny falls' machines strongly suggests to me at least that there is a special thrill for at least some people engendered by placing a coin into a machine in the hope of winning a number of coins in return!

grumiofoundation

Type_45 said:

barnstar2077 said:

Eco_Miser said:

Pieces of precious metal, probably stamped into discs, or IOUs written on paper, probably pre-printed by a trusted dealer.

I don't think a drug dealer is necessarily going to be able to verify a precious metal down a dark alley at one in the morning.  It has to be something instantly recognisable, something that doesn't have to be prefabricated by criminals, readily available and usable by all.  Like carrots.  "How many carrots for a bag mate?"

Precious metals may well work.

Mobile phone minutes are also an option.

Pretty common for people to have unlimited minutes in the UK so your dystopian underground currency might need a rethink.

In fact now I think about it I haven't paid for minutes for many years. I hope the the powers that be aren't aiming to stop everyone using time as well! 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_Time

Incidentally do you have a reference for the common usage of minutes being traded in Kenya? (Is there a shilling to minute exchange rate?).

Type_45

grumiofoundation said:

Type_45 said:

barnstar2077 said:

Eco_Miser said:

Pieces of precious metal, probably stamped into discs, or IOUs written on paper, probably pre-printed by a trusted dealer.

I don't think a drug dealer is necessarily going to be able to verify a precious metal down a dark alley at one in the morning.  It has to be something instantly recognisable, something that doesn't have to be prefabricated by criminals, readily available and usable by all.  Like carrots.  "How many carrots for a bag mate?"

Precious metals may well work.

Mobile phone minutes are also an option.

Pretty common for people to have unlimited minutes in the UK so your dystopian underground currency might need a rethink.

In fact now I think about it I haven't paid for minutes for many years. I hope the the powers that be aren't aiming to stop everyone using time as well! 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_Time

Incidentally do you have a reference for the common usage of minutes being traded in Kenya? (Is there a shilling to minute exchange rate?).

I've only heard anecdotally about mobile phone minutes being used as currency in Kenya. But I think it's genius and I can see how it would work.

But you're right in saying it probably wouldn't work here.

Precious metal is probably the best option I can think of at the moment. Crypto is too easy to trace and to "switch off" by shutting the websites needed to use it. The right idea, but flawed.

eskbanker

Type_45 said:

barnstar2077 said:

Eco_Miser said:

Pieces of precious metal, probably stamped into discs, or IOUs written on paper, probably pre-printed by a trusted dealer.

I don't think a drug dealer is necessarily going to be able to verify a precious metal down a dark alley at one in the morning.  It has to be something instantly recognisable, something that doesn't have to be prefabricated by criminals, readily available and usable by all.  Like carrots.  "How many carrots for a bag mate?"

Precious metals may well work.

Whoosh!

Type_45 said:

Mobile phone minutes are also an option.

Riiiiggghhht, so someone suffering paranoid delusions about surveillance, monitoring and control would willingly put their trust in mobile phone companies, whose records are already routinely accessed by authorities?  Er, OK....

barnstar2077

cricidmuslibale said:

I'm not advocating gambling here but I do occasionally enjoy playing on the 'penny falls' machines at amusement arcades particularly by the seaside. I also used to enjoy the classic coin-operated fruit machines in the days when it was possible to win money overall if you really knew what you were doing. [These days modern fruit machines are so sophisticated and cleverly put together that you nearly always lose and you can lose a lot of money if you use them for an extended period of time.] Both 'penny falls' machines and fruit machines usually require the inputting of coins. As do the classic arcade games and pinball machines for example. I'm not sure that e.g. the local economy in classic seaside towns such as Blackpool, Brighton, Great Yarmouth, Margate, Rhyl, Scarborough, Southport etc would do quite so well if cash was abolished!

P.S. The fact that ITV currently broadcast a popular game show "Tipping Point" which is very clearly based on 'penny falls' machines strongly suggests to me at least that there is a special thrill for at least some people engendered by placing a coin into a machine in the hope of winning a number of coins in return!

This can be solved easily by the amusement arcade using tokens. You buy them with a card when you enter, and cash them out when you leave.  Not that anyone actually plays 2p machines to make money of course. 

Eco_Miser

eskbanker said:

Or small cheap Italian hatchbacks perhaps?

Would that be a FIAT currency?

Eco_Miser

barnstar2077 said:

Eco_Miser said:

Pieces of precious metal, probably stamped into discs, or IOUs written on paper, probably pre-printed by a trusted dealer.

I don't think a drug dealer is necessarily going to be able to verify a precious metal down a dark alley at one in the morning.  It has to be something instantly recognisable, something that doesn't have to be prefabricated by criminals, readily available and usable by all.  Like carrots.  "How many carrots for a bag mate?"

I was thinking more of a precious metals or commodities dealer, or indeed a dealer in IOUs.

But since you mention drugs, they could be the medium of exchange for paying the car washer.