Natwest bank sent an unauthorised duplicate payment & refuse to refund

Thrugelmir

naedanger said:

Thrugelmir said:

naedanger said:

bobbidyboo said:

Rather unusual one- has anyone come across this before?

I have a standing order set up of £1,200 a month. Natwest accidentally processed 2 x £1200 on the same day. I have no more payments planned. They admit to the error but instead of refunding one, they insist it's my job to go to the payee to get my money refunded.

I have requested a refund from the payee, but they aren't helping at all. They're probably glad to have the extra money.

I went back to the bank, who incredibly said "we could have reversed the duplicate payment had you contacted us on the day".
My reply was that they can't expect me as a customer to check my bank account every day just in case they make an error.

At that point, the customer service rep hung up on me, rather deliberately I might add. I tried contacting them via live chat with a similar result.

Each time I contact Natwest, they go through the motions of telling me
 a.) to request a refund from the payee
b.) that I should have told them of the error on the same day it happened
c.) then cut me off.
Has anyone been through anything similar or have any tips? I'm a little shaken up that a bank in England can behave like this.

My suggestion:
Complain to the bank in writing.

1. Make clear the payment was made due to their error alone and you were blameless.
2. You have lost £1,200 as a result because you have not been able to recover this money from the payee yourself.
3. You did at the bank's suggestion try to reclaim the money yourself from the payee as you thought this might be the simplest and quickest solution. However the payee has refused to refund the money for no good reason and you are not prepared to go to any further trouble to resolve Natwest's error for them.
4. You could also complain about their poor handling of this matter so far.

The bank's first response to your complaint should explain their full complaint process, including your right to take the matter to the financial ombudsman service if you are unhappy with the bank's final response.

Don't pursue the payee further. That is not your job, will involve cost, time and effort, and it might be hard enforcing payment even if you went to court and won.

Might as well take the course of action I suggested be far quicker. Bank are going to highly suspicious. Rather convenient the payee doesn't make refunds. 

Will it? I could write the complaint letter and send it off in 20 minutes or less. The bank can, and should, reclaim from the payee if the bank made the payment in error. 

I'd have thought the speedy return of the money would have been the top priority.  Letter before action would take less than five minutes to draft. 

colsten

It doesn't matter whether and how Natwest can retrieve the money they have wrongly sent. They need to refund you immediately. You need to raise a formal complaint.

I am a tad concerned with you reporting that they put the phone down on you. Banks don't normally do that unless customers get abusive. So if you are without blame, you should also complain about the behaviour of their agent. Natwest will have a recording of the phonecall.

naedanger

Thrugelmir said:

naedanger said:

Thrugelmir said:

naedanger said:

bobbidyboo said:

Rather unusual one- has anyone come across this before?

I have a standing order set up of £1,200 a month. Natwest accidentally processed 2 x £1200 on the same day. I have no more payments planned. They admit to the error but instead of refunding one, they insist it's my job to go to the payee to get my money refunded.

I have requested a refund from the payee, but they aren't helping at all. They're probably glad to have the extra money.

I went back to the bank, who incredibly said "we could have reversed the duplicate payment had you contacted us on the day".
My reply was that they can't expect me as a customer to check my bank account every day just in case they make an error.

At that point, the customer service rep hung up on me, rather deliberately I might add. I tried contacting them via live chat with a similar result.

Each time I contact Natwest, they go through the motions of telling me
 a.) to request a refund from the payee
b.) that I should have told them of the error on the same day it happened
c.) then cut me off.
Has anyone been through anything similar or have any tips? I'm a little shaken up that a bank in England can behave like this.

My suggestion:
Complain to the bank in writing.

1. Make clear the payment was made due to their error alone and you were blameless.
2. You have lost £1,200 as a result because you have not been able to recover this money from the payee yourself.
3. You did at the bank's suggestion try to reclaim the money yourself from the payee as you thought this might be the simplest and quickest solution. However the payee has refused to refund the money for no good reason and you are not prepared to go to any further trouble to resolve Natwest's error for them.
4. You could also complain about their poor handling of this matter so far.

The bank's first response to your complaint should explain their full complaint process, including your right to take the matter to the financial ombudsman service if you are unhappy with the bank's final response.

Don't pursue the payee further. That is not your job, will involve cost, time and effort, and it might be hard enforcing payment even if you went to court and won.

Might as well take the course of action I suggested be far quicker. Bank are going to highly suspicious. Rather convenient the payee doesn't make refunds. 

Will it? I could write the complaint letter and send it off in 20 minutes or less. The bank can, and should, reclaim from the payee if the bank made the payment in error. 

I'd have thought the speedy return of the money would have been the top priority.  Letter before action would take less than five minutes to draft. 

Well it is the original poster's decision.

Personally I would not take on legal action against someone to resolve a problem my bank created. 

Thrugelmir

naedanger said:

Thrugelmir said:

naedanger said:

Thrugelmir said:

naedanger said:

bobbidyboo said:

Rather unusual one- has anyone come across this before?

I have a standing order set up of £1,200 a month. Natwest accidentally processed 2 x £1200 on the same day. I have no more payments planned. They admit to the error but instead of refunding one, they insist it's my job to go to the payee to get my money refunded.

I have requested a refund from the payee, but they aren't helping at all. They're probably glad to have the extra money.

I went back to the bank, who incredibly said "we could have reversed the duplicate payment had you contacted us on the day".
My reply was that they can't expect me as a customer to check my bank account every day just in case they make an error.

At that point, the customer service rep hung up on me, rather deliberately I might add. I tried contacting them via live chat with a similar result.

Each time I contact Natwest, they go through the motions of telling me
 a.) to request a refund from the payee
b.) that I should have told them of the error on the same day it happened
c.) then cut me off.
Has anyone been through anything similar or have any tips? I'm a little shaken up that a bank in England can behave like this.

My suggestion:
Complain to the bank in writing.

1. Make clear the payment was made due to their error alone and you were blameless.
2. You have lost £1,200 as a result because you have not been able to recover this money from the payee yourself.
3. You did at the bank's suggestion try to reclaim the money yourself from the payee as you thought this might be the simplest and quickest solution. However the payee has refused to refund the money for no good reason and you are not prepared to go to any further trouble to resolve Natwest's error for them.
4. You could also complain about their poor handling of this matter so far.

The bank's first response to your complaint should explain their full complaint process, including your right to take the matter to the financial ombudsman service if you are unhappy with the bank's final response.

Don't pursue the payee further. That is not your job, will involve cost, time and effort, and it might be hard enforcing payment even if you went to court and won.

Might as well take the course of action I suggested be far quicker. Bank are going to highly suspicious. Rather convenient the payee doesn't make refunds. 

Will it? I could write the complaint letter and send it off in 20 minutes or less. The bank can, and should, reclaim from the payee if the bank made the payment in error. 

I'd have thought the speedy return of the money would have been the top priority.  Letter before action would take less than five minutes to draft. 

Well it is the original poster's decision.

Personally I would not take on legal action against someone to resolve a problem my bank created. 

Fraud is the obvious concern. Which will result in a delay in achieving an outcome from the bank. 

bobbidyboo

Fraud is the obvious concern. Which will result in a delay in achieving an outcome from the bank. 

Fraud in what sense? How could a customer break into a bank and secretly force their automated system to make an error by sending a duplicate payment? There are records of the standing order & records that a duplicate payment was sent via the same standing order (which shouldn't have happened).

Since the bank has already admitted the error was on their part, how could it be fraud? Genuinely asking.

phillw

bobbidyboo said:
Fraud in what sense?

My take on it is the person who received the money and is refusing to refund it is guilty of fraud as you have a real legal duty to return money that was transferred to you by mistake.

The OP has two options.
1. persuade the bank to reverse the transaction.
2. pursue the recipient for fraud.
Complaining to the bank and the financial ombudsman might be quicker and cheaper than trying to take someone to court.

However threatening to take the recipient to court might work.

Standing orders should really be banned.

jonesMUFCforever

IF what the OP wrote is true there is no need for any legal action.
A formal complaint would get this resolved.

I feel we have not had the full story here.

jsmith9

I kind of agree with you. It does sound very strange and this should be easily resolvable with the bank as they can see what has happened in about 15 milliseconds

northwalesd

phillw said:

Standing orders should really be banned.

No, they really shouldn't.

tripled

Raise a formal complaint with your bank, if you do it over the phone make sure they give you a reference number for the complaint. If they do not resolve it within 15 days, escalate to the FOS.

https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/consumers/expect/time-limits