Cam Belt Replacement - VW Passat

DettaWalker

Hi,
when it comes to cam belts I've always been weary (for my previous car they tried to sell me a cam belt replacement when my car had a drive chain, three times...). My passat is now coming up for a service (I bought it used 1 year ago at 4.5 years of age and its turning 6 soon - it's my first service), and I know they will try to peddle a cam belt replacement to me. I know the cam belt is a controversial subject with UK car dealerships recommending a replacement every 5 years or a certain mileage, whichever is sooner. In Germany, the advice from VW is to replace it based on mileage. Whilst they've done well to not give this advice in the UK to not undermine the UK dealerships, I found interesting posts by specialist websites including this one that lists the official cam belt replacement advice by model:
(Google translate should work, but I'm a native speaker)
Zahnriemenwechsel VW Passat » Intervalle & Werkstatt-Kosten (fairgarage.com)

• Bei vielen anderen Modellen wie dem Passat 3C 2, dem 3C5, dem 357, dem 3G2, dem 3G5 und beim Alltrack 365, liegt das Intervall ebenfalls bei komfortablen 210.000 km.

For my model it says every 210k km (131k miles), with my current mileage at around 60k, I am not planning to go near a cam belt replacement but I would love to hear if there is any other opinions on why it should be done time-based when the manufacturer recommends mileage based (and have upped their recommendations from an initial 40k miles in earlier models to now 131k miles).
Thank you for your input...!
DW

dogshome

It's your choice - Cam belts can and do fail due to age, and if it were my car I certainly would not go beyond 7 years or the recommended mileage

L9XSS

Hi, I’ve had many cars over the years, particularly BMW, Mercedes, Audi and Lexus and Volvo.  The BMW and Mercedes were always timing chains, the other 3 timing belts.
I don’t tend  to do high mileages now, but most of my cars were either 2 years old when bought or 10 years old (I run two cars). With the older vehicle if I’m not able to determine it’s had a timing belt change (service records, timing belt sticker under the bonnet etc) then I get it done at my local garage (for piece of mind). My garage is really good and the old serviceable belt is kept for you to see (usually all the old ones have been fine) however they can crack and perish over time without mileage. For the price (circa £250-£300j I prefer the piece of mind. When I was younger I had a Vauxhall Omega, bought at 14 years old 120,000 miles, the timing belt snapped after 6 months.........was a lesson learned.
my V70 (13 years old) was done a year ago, I’m keeping the car, so probably won’t get it done for another 8 years (I do 10,000 miles) a year.....

AdrianC

Those Passat model codes cover the 2005 B6 (3C2/3C5) up until the current B8 (3G5). You don't (I suspect deliberately) say how old your car is, but we could be looking at a 15yo car.

Not changing the cambelt simply because the car has only done 4k/year (itself, not a good thing) is a total false economy, unless you're the kind to view the MOT as a once-a-year highpoint of almost unattainable proportions and the car as a disposable which is a small bill away from weigh-in. It's a great example of thinking routine maintenance costs are a bad thing, and knowing the price of everything and the value of nothing.

DettaWalker

AdrianC said:

Those Passat model codes cover the 2005 B6 (3C2/3C5) up until the current B8 (3G5). You don't (I suspect deliberately) say how old your car is, but we could be looking at a 15yo car.

Not changing the cambelt simply because the car has only done 4k/year (itself, not a good thing) is a total false economy, unless you're the kind to view the MOT as a once-a-year highpoint of almost unattainable proportions and the car as a disposable which is a small bill away from weigh-in. It's a great example of thinking routine maintenance costs are a bad thing, and knowing the price of everything and the value of nothing.

Oh no, I said it above in my original post , my car is currently 5.5 years old. It's a 65 plate, 2015 model. so it's done a bit over 10k miles per year.
I don't know where to get a cam belt replacement for £300, here in Reading they are £650, which is a lot of money to spend for peace of mind, when in Germany it just isn't done at this interval. 

DettaWalker

L9XSS said:

Hi, I’ve had many cars over the years, particularly BMW, Mercedes, Audi and Lexus and Volvo.  The BMW and Mercedes were always timing chains, the other 3 timing belts.
I don’t tend  to do high mileages now, but most of my cars were either 2 years old when bought or 10 years old (I run two cars). With the older vehicle if I’m not able to determine it’s had a timing belt change (service records, timing belt sticker under the bonnet etc) then I get it done at my local garage (for piece of mind). My garage is really good and the old serviceable belt is kept for you to see (usually all the old ones have been fine) however they can crack and perish over time without mileage. For the price (circa £250-£300j I prefer the piece of mind. When I was younger I had a Vauxhall Omega, bought at 14 years old 120,000 miles, the timing belt snapped after 6 months.........was a lesson learned.
my V70 (13 years old) was done a year ago, I’m keeping the car, so probably won’t get it done for another 8 years (I do 10,000 miles) a year.....

Sadly the replacement here is £650 in Reading. It's a lot of money if it is not necessary. Now with your older car at 120k miles, that could have been way beyond the recommended interval. Like I said, depending on the model of the car, the recommendations vary between 40k-131k miles at VW too. Would be very interesting to know what the manufacturer's recommendation was of your Vauxhall. According to that source, for cars in the 90s the recommendation was to replace cam belts well below 100k miles. (for example passat models until 2003 of a certain model had the recommendation to change the cam belts at 60k miles)

AdrianC

DettaWalker said:

Oh no, I said it above in my original post , my car is currently 5.5 years old. It's a 65 plate, 2015 model.

So you did. My bad.

I don't know where to get a cam belt replacement for £300, here in Reading they are £650, which is a lot of money to spend for peace of mind, when in Germany it just isn't done at this interval.

Even at a VW dealer, there's change from £500.
https://www.volkswagen.co.uk/owners-and-drivers/servicing/pricing-for-cars-over-3
At that price, £85 is VAT, straight off.
You don't say which engine, but assuming what's probably the most common, then the parts are £200 or more for a complete kit from a decent brand, even outside the dealer chain.
https://www.mister-auto.co.uk/timing-belt-kit-with-water-pump/volkswagen/passat/passat-3g2-2-0-tdi-150hp-2014/
So that leaves £200 for the actual labour - including paying for the workshop, the ramp, the tools, the other consumables such as the coolant change... and all the employment costs of the bloke actually doing probably three hours of work.

As for £500 being a lot of money... What is a 5.5yo Passat worth? What would it be worth with a dead engine?

DettaWalker

AdrianC said:

DettaWalker said:

Oh no, I said it above in my original post , my car is currently 5.5 years old. It's a 65 plate, 2015 model.

So you did. My bad.

I don't know where to get a cam belt replacement for £300, here in Reading they are £650, which is a lot of money to spend for peace of mind, when in Germany it just isn't done at this interval.

Even at a VW dealer, there's change from £500.
https://www.volkswagen.co.uk/owners-and-drivers/servicing/pricing-for-cars-over-3
At that price, £85 is VAT, straight off.
You don't say which engine, but assuming what's probably the most common, then the parts are £200 or more for a complete kit from a decent brand, even outside the dealer chain.
https://www.mister-auto.co.uk/timing-belt-kit-with-water-pump/volkswagen/passat/passat-3g2-2-0-tdi-150hp-2014/
So that leaves £200 for the actual labour - including paying for the workshop, the ramp, the tools, the other consumables such as the coolant change... and all the employment costs of the bloke actually doing probably three hours of work.

As for £500 being a lot of money... What is a 5.5yo Passat worth? What would it be worth with a dead engine?

I've checked with my VW dealer yesterday when I booked in the service and it was £650 standard pricing on their website. Maybe it is more expensive for my engine. It is a 2.0 litre BlueMotion Diesel.  It's the new model, B8 from 2015 onwards. 
The thing is this, why are we recommending much shorter service intervals in the UK when in Germany it isn't done at all? Why is the UK differing from the manufacturers recommendation on such a large scale? If it's money that doesn't need to be spent, then £650 is a lot (also, I thought if a cam belt snaps you have to replace the engine which comes at about £2500?). It feels like a money grabbing exercise and very strange that for some reason the same car needs different cam belt replacements depending on which country it is in.

DettaWalker

As for £500 being a lot of money... What is a 5.5yo Passat worth? What would it be worth with a dead engine?

just checked again. You're right on the cost. It is £494.

AdrianC

DettaWalker said:
Why is the UK differing from the manufacturers recommendation on such a large scale?

It isn't.
VW UK set the UK intervals.
VW UK are 100% owned by VW Germany.
VW UK are "the manufacturer".
https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/00514809/persons-with-significant-control

So it's a question of why UK recommendations are different to German. I don't know. Do we even know they are? The link you gave is not a VW link, after all - it's a third party site, one that looks to be some kind of national garage-finder. The prices they give on there are not far different from the price you're being quoted. They don't say that the interval isn't mileage-or-time, they simply only mention the mileage... apart from to say a generic "Because the timing belt is subject to high thermal and manual loads, it must be replaced at specified time intervals or after certain mileage"

Perhaps VW UK explicitly add a time interval in there because they know that a lot of UK motorists are relatively low-mileage minimal-maintainers who will whinge if the belt snaps at 10yrs because the car has "only done 30,000 miles! It should be as good as new!"?

One thing's for sure - it's absolutely your choice, your risk, your money. I would.

DettaWalker

AdrianC said:

DettaWalker said:
Why is the UK differing from the manufacturers recommendation on such a large scale?

It isn't.
VW UK set the UK intervals.
VW UK are 100% owned by VW Germany.
VW UK are "the manufacturer".
https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/00514809/persons-with-significant-control

So it's a question of why UK recommendations are different to German. I don't know. Do we even know they are? The link you gave is not a VW link, after all - it's a third party site, one that looks to be some kind of national garage-finder. The prices they give on there are not far different from the price you're being quoted. They don't say that the interval isn't mileage-or-time, they simply only mention the mileage... apart from to say a generic "Because the timing belt is subject to high thermal and manual loads, it must be replaced at specified time intervals or after certain mileage"

Perhaps VW UK explicitly add a time interval in there because they know that a lot of UK motorists are relatively low-mileage minimal-maintainers who will whinge if the belt snaps at 10yrs because the car has "only done 30,000 miles! It should be as good as new!"?

One thing's for sure - it's absolutely your choice, your risk, your money. I would.

Yes its not the VW site. But a quick google search (easy for me as I am a native speaker) reveals the same information monitored across many newspapers and other sites and I am happy to post 5 different websites stating the same. The last step to conclude my research is to phone up my old local VW dealer in Nuremberg to see what they say. And if they confirm it, then we really see a massive discrepancy between UK & German guidance.
I've noticed that it is very, very difficult to find a table from the manufacturer stating the same information - and I did try (but maybe need to invest another hour in trying to dig it up). All they do advertise is that their new cambelts have a lifespan of up to 210,000 KM, depending on model. I did find a recommendation (not on VW) that you should replace the cam belt at 10 years if you don't hit the mileage, due to natural corrosion and to have it inspected at every service.

And regarding VW UK - we import passats, we don't manufacture them.
List of Volkswagen Group factories - Wikipedia
According to wikipedia the only UK Factory they have is for bentleys. Passats are manufactured in Emden, Germany to be moved to the Czech Republic. So with that in mind I do believe that VW UK has absolutely nothing to do with the manufacture of VW Passats and therefore their guidelines are a localisation only.
Average miles driven in the UK 10k, in Germany 14,000 KM - so about 8750 miles. So that can't be the argument either.