Homebuyer Report vs Building Survey

mither_2

Hi,
We hope to shortly purchase a house. The mortgage is with Barclays but they have yet to confirm whether they will provide a physical valuation or a desktop assessment. 
We were hoping to have access to this report so that when we have our survey completed they could look into any issues flagged by the Barclays report. However, it doesn't appear that there will be time for this. Also, if the Barclays report only confirms whether the house is worth the sale price or not then it wouldn't be of any benefit for this purpose anyway. 
We are considering whether to go for a Homebuyer Report or a survey. The property is as follows:

·         4 bed semi constructed c1930

·         Loft converted and kitchen extended c 2005

·         When the loft was convered much of the roof would have been changed to allow for the installation of skylights and a dormer. The tiling looks different from that on the neighbouring house so its possible it was all changed at that time.

·         We’ve been to the house twice and looked carefully for any signs of subsidence, cracks, damp or any other obvious issues but didn’t see any. We asked the vendors directly if they were aware of any issues and they confrimed they hadn’t had any.

·         The current owners acquired the property in 2008. The loft conversion and kitchen extension were completed before this (c2005) and so any issues with work done should have been flagged to them.  

·         There are no trees anywhere near the house

·         The house is a fairly starightforward construction and the loft and kitchen extemsion appear straightforward as well and all built with conventional materials.

Given that it should be a fairly straightforward survey we were inclined to try and save some money and have the Homebuyer Survey (£650 - £750 + VAT) rather than the full Survey (£1000 - £1150 + VAT) unless there is any particular benefit in having the survey? 

One benefit we did consider is that with the survey we could ask the surveyor to focus on particular areas such as the loft conversion, roof and extension to make sure that they have been constructed correctly.

Are there any other particular benefits specific to this purchase?

   Each of the surveyors has quoted a PI cover of £1m (far more than the house is worth) but if they miss something how likely are we ever to be claim on this cover?

Any inputs appreciated.

 Thanks

  

AdrianC

Your lender - whoever they may be - only care about the valuation. Their surveyor does no more than that - and, yes, currently it is very likely to be desktop, unless there's something that makes them specifically concerned.

If you want anything more than that, then you will have to commission your own survey. If you use a surveyor who is on the lender's panel, you should be able to get them to do the lender's valuation at the same time.

Whether you think it worth a full structural, or whether you will personally be satisfied with an HBR... I leave up to you.

stevenway

Hello, Steve the Surveyor here - 

We were hoping to have access to this report so that when we have our survey completed they could look into any issues flagged by the Barclays report.  You may not get to see this and it probably wouldn't tell you much

4 bed semi constructed c1930, Loft converted and kitchen extended c 2005 - I would always say Building survey for this description

We’ve been to the house twice and looked carefully for any signs of subsidence, cracks, damp or any other obvious issues but didn’t see any. Its all very well looking yourself but a) you probably have limited knowledge b) are unlikely to have "followed the trail" and c) this is important - you were looking at a home, surveyors look at houses.  They're different!

We asked the vendors directly if they were aware of any issues and they confirmed they hadn’t had any. and why would or should they tell you?

The current owners acquired the property in 2008. The loft conversion and kitchen extension were completed before this (c2005) and so any issues with work done should have been flagged to them.  and they have no obligation to tel you if they did and if so if they did anything about it

Each of the surveyors has quoted a PI cover of £1m (far more than the house is worth) but if they miss something how likely are we ever to be claim on this cover?  PI covers the surveyor and not you, any claim would be against the surveyor and the PI covers any payment the surveyor is required to make.

robatwork

I've never paid more than £500 for a full buildings survey by a chartered surveyor. Shop around a bit.

NameUnavailable

Alternatively get a structural engineer in, a damp survey, an electrician to check things and a plumber to check the GCH if it has it. You pay for a survey and it will be mostly standard blurb with advice to get the above checks anyway!

yllop1101

NameUnavailable said:

Alternatively get a structural engineer in, a damp survey, an electrician to check things and a plumber to check the GCH if it has it. You pay for a survey and it will be mostly standard blurb with advice to get the above checks anyway!

I echo this, in that even a full building survey will still advise specialists. I paid £700 for a full survey and it was pretty bog standard and inconclusive, aside from 'get a full damp report, get a timber specialist' etc. With the loft conversion you nor a simple surveyor will be able to tell if its safe and to building regs as neither can do intrusive inspections, E. G. To see if sufficient floor joists have been put in to support the weight of the conversation. A structural engineer may be able to do this if he has permission from the vendors to properly poke around. Do you know if there are building regulation certificates/sign off for the work?

I looked at a house recently with a loft conversion with no building regs. The vendors didn't do the conversion, nor did the people they brought it from, nor did the people before that. So I ended up doing quite a bit of research into the regulations and how to get sign off. I decided to make a lower offer on the basis that remedial work may need doing to the loft and it couldn't be counted as an extra bedroom due to lack of building regs. 

Doozergirl

yllop1101 said:

NameUnavailable said:

Alternatively get a structural engineer in, a damp survey, an electrician to check things and a plumber to check the GCH if it has it. You pay for a survey and it will be mostly standard blurb with advice to get the above checks anyway!

I echo this, in that even a full building survey will still advise specialists. I paid £700 for a full survey and it was pretty bog standard and inconclusive, aside from 'get a full damp report, get a timber specialist' etc. With the loft conversion you nor a simple surveyor will be able to tell if its safe and to building regs as neither can do intrusive inspections, E. G. To see if sufficient floor joists have been put in to support the weight of the conversation. A structural engineer may be able to do this if he has permission from the vendors to properly poke around. Do you know if there are building regulation certificates/sign off for the work?

I looked at a house recently with a loft conversion with no building regs. The vendors didn't do the conversion, nor did the people they brought it from, nor did the people before that. So I ended up doing quite a bit of research into the regulations and how to get sign off. I decided to make a lower offer on the basis that remedial work may need doing to the loft and it couldn't be counted as an extra bedroom due to lack of building regs. 

It can be counted as a bedroom if it is properly safe.  It's a complete myth that it doesn't count without building regulations.  No one ever says that a kitchen isn't a kitchen or a first floor bedroom isn't a bedroom without a certificate. 

Most houses and many loft conversion pre-date the Building Regulations!  

 

It is entirely reasonable that a bog standard loft is not counted as a bedroom, but it isn't black and white that one without a certificate isn't one either.  

The presence of an ancient building control certificate does not guarantee its safety, the presence of a brand new certificate doesn't guarantee quality and the lack of one doesn't mean that it isn't safe.  

If a properly qualified surveyor or structural feels it would be safe to use as a bedroom, it is a bedroom. 

Back to the OP and I feel that a valuation isn't enough and that a full buildings survey will give a little more detail than the homebuyers, along with estimates of costs for work, which is more reassuring than a list of defects and no idea on how bad they are or how to fix them.  More important is the quality of the surveyor.  

 Having seen the homebuyers on our own house and my observation that the surveyor was about 12, it wasn't all wrong but there were glaring mistakes and I was deeply unimpressed with the superficial level of knowledge displayed and the mistakes within it.    I would like a survey not to read like the automated tick-box exercise with pre-filled statements that it appears to be. 

Whilst a survey costs money, a good one should save you that in potential renegotiation or at least provide you with a good initial knowledge of the house.  A good one should be a working document, not for reading and then filing.  

lookstraightahead

However you do it, do as much as you can (whether full structural survey or specialists). This will be your home and it will cost you a few hundred quid, compared to possibly tens of thousands afterwards.

mither_2

Thanks all. 
In the end we went with a building survey. The cost was just over £600 + VAT which seemed reasonable enough for London, especially as demand is very high at the moment. 
One tip I would have it to make a list of any concerns or queries and make sure that the surveyor addresses these specifically. 
Agreed with the other comments that it was of limited value. It was a second set of eyes and it did reassure us that there were no major issues. 
The solicitor all of our other concerns. 
We hope to complete next week so fingers crossed all is fine.