Landlord wanting to deduct from our deposit

[Deleted User]

greatcrested said:

fiwen30 said:

dimbo61 said:

Did you get a check in inventory from the Letting agents/Landlord ?
Have you got the deposit details ?
Contact them in the morning and claim your full deposit back.
It is up to the Landlord to prove that you have left the property in a worse condition that when you moved in taking into account Fair Wear and Tear.
Now if the property is empty while the LL has it repainted, new decorations, EICR /GSC/ New EPC that is down to them and should be expected after 4 + years.
Dispute any and all deductions that the Landlords thinks you should pay.
I would also consider a Letter before Action if you don't receive your full deposit within 14 days.
Good luck

Thanks. I do have both an inventory and info on the deposit scheme, and will be making calls in the morning.

The only discrepancy I can see on the inventory, is that it included a washing machine. Now, this washing machine packed in after about a year of my tenancy. I contacted the landlord, who said that the washing machine at my house had been a cast off of their daughter’s when she replaced hers, and was included at the rental ‘as good will’, as so they wouldn’t be replacing it if it failed. I knew I could’ve pushed for a new one, as it had been included in the inventory, but I didn’t want to rock the boat. I replaced the washing machine out of pocket, and took it with me to our new house. I have text messages showing this, as proof.

What makes you think you could have "pushed for a new one"? Did the tenancy agreement say the LL was responsible for repair/replacement of the washing machine?

Do you have a letter/email from the LL agreeing to you disposing of his washing machine, or just a verbal recollection?

Re the check out: it is highly unusual for this to be done in the presence of the tenant.

It's also very common for it to be done by a 3rd person rather than the landlord. Indeed there is a professional body for this ( The AIIC ), though there is no legal requirement for the check-out inspector to be a member.

As you've rightly been advised, your obligation is to leave the property in the same (or better!) condition at the end as at the start, less fair wear and tear. It is for the LL to prove his claim that you did not, and the start/end reports are usually the key methods of proof (though not exclusively).

Any proposed deductions should be broken down and costed.

See my post here for more

Post 3: Deposits: Payment, Protection and Return.

The OP is in Northern Ireland not England. 

dani17

Don't be disappointed. there are people who are dishonest and only care about money . you should accept it as it is. I had recently a ridiculous experience where I paid the agency for professional cleaning and the landlord come back claiming that the property was poorly cleaned and wanted to deduct another cleaning from the deposit. Don't waste your time and just raise a dispute. 

FBaby

To be fair, after a previous tenant left the place in a complete mess, we hired a professional cleaner recommended by the agency. 

There were 2 of them, with what appeared to be professional equipment and we trusted they'd do a good job. I was shocked with the result. The main cleaner rid a decent job but the other one must have been seating drinking coffee all day. I realised then that it couldn't be assumed using a professional would mean a good clean.

macman

There is no such thing as a 'professional' clean or cleaner. It just means that they get paid for doing it, badly or otherwise. An 'amateur' cleaner can do it just as well, or not.
If a washing machine is inventoried, then, unless stated otherwise, it's reasonable to assume that it's to be maintained at the LL's expense: to subsequently claim upon it's demise that it was only there as 'goodwill' is utterly risible.
Unfortunately, if you've let such an LL get away with this sort of thing during the tenancy then it's unsurprising that they'll try it on again when it comes to deposit deductions.
Let the scheme decide; that's what it's there for.

fiwen30

Morning all, back again with a few questions relating to this.

I had £250, 50%, of my deposit returned, and the remainder is being contested by the LL for ‘cleaning’. They have submitted their evidence to the deposit scheme, and now it’s my turn.

They’re claiming £50 for the oven specifically, and the remaining £200 for the rest of the house. I can see their evidence, and there’s a letter & photos from before I took on the property, and then after. Many of the ‘after’ photos, which show the parts of the house which they’re trying to claim for, aren’t pictured in the ‘before’ photos.

From the letter and the ‘after’ photos, their main gripes seem to be in regards to some dust on the dado rail in the hallway, discoloured silicone on the living room windowsill (they’re claiming that this is because it wasn’t cleaned - the sill had been cleaned, but the silicone was discoloured over the 4.5 years of me living there, plus however old the silicone actually is), discoloured silicone around the bath (see previous note re. age of silicone), the black bin was dirty inside(?) (no mention of bin upkeep in my tenancy agreement), and a dirty front door & front window - this is a mid terrace, where the front of the house is directly on the narrow pavement, in front of the road, in December; there was a delay between my tenancy ending and the LL’s inspection, and between winter weather & traffic, the front of the house was never going to stay pristine clean.

They’ve bulked up their ‘after photos’ with a random photo of the ancient, yellowing, (but still completely functional!) single bulb light fitting on the landing, minus the lightbulb, with a note of it being in ‘poor condition’. Now, I had left 3 brand new bulbs in the kitchen for the landing and a couple of the living room, and let the LL know that I couldn’t fit them as the ceilings were at least 12ft, and by then we had taken our stepladder. He replied acknowledging that this was fine, and thanked me for the spares. There’s also a picture of the outside yard drain, with a few leaves on top (again, December weather, plus the yard slopes to the drain, like it should to get rid of rainwater).

LL has changed tack, and is no longer after the £250 for ‘professional cleaning’ costs, as they’d previously said to me. Instead, their letter says that between the 2 of them, it took 5 days to wipe a bit of dust off a dado rail, and because they’re self employed they’re claiming the money to ‘offset a percentage of their work and loss’.

Questions:
Is it a strong case for them to be claiming my deposit against their ‘work and loss’? It’s only up to the adjudicator, I know, but it seems a difficult thing for them to prove & put a price on.

I’ll be uploading the documents that I have, plus screenshots of conversations between the LL and myself, but should my supporting letter respond to each of their ‘after’ photos, and the claims made in their letter? Or should I just stick to my own narrative, which is that I left the house in a clean, liveable condition which was representative of how it was when I moved in?

Since their ‘before’ pictures don’t explicitly show things like dusty/non dusty dado rails, and pristine/aging silicone, how likely do you think it might be that these will actually be things eligible for a claim?

Many thanks.

p.s. I wouldn’t begrudge them the £50 for the oven - we had cleaned it, but again it wasn’t sparkling new. It was actually received part way through my tenancy, secondhand from the LL themselves, after they got a new one, so I don’t know how old it was. But if they had to clean it again, then I’m sorry for them - no one likes cleaning ovens, and they could have the £50 for that!

macman

You are over-thinking this. Dust on dado rail, discoloured silicone, no proper inventory, or photographic evidence before or after...the scheme will just laugh at that and award you your deposit, with the possible exception of the oven. (their old cast-off one). Offer the £50 if your'e feeling generous, if not let the scheme decide.

The fact they they are trying to claim based on 'loss of income' just demonstrates their stupidity.

[Deleted User]

I would be concise in response but respond to each aspect - the oven, the light bulbs. Anything in their claim that relates to loss of income, cost of their own labour, absence of before/after photos, untimely inventory will fail. You are worried about the oven, but did they provide a new inventory when they replaced it.  Again, absence of inventory = fail. Same with the silicon, which even if evidenced by before/after, would be a wear and tear issue anyway.

fiwen30

An update for anyone interested - I got my remaining deposit monies back this morning, after going through the dispute process. Been a long 4 months, but at least it’s done now!

The adjudicator found completely in my favour - the first 12 month tenancy agreement I signed was written up by the estate agent, however the second & ongoing tenancy agreement I signed was brought round by the landlord, and had clearly been printed off of Google or the like, as it made no mention of a deposit at all, let alone what that deposit money might go towards at the end of the tenancy. Pretty funny in hindsight, and glad it’s done and dusted. Thanks to all for your help & advice!

Isa_belle1

Thanks for the update, great news!

lucypilates

As a previous LL myself, I’ve never been advised to deduct from deposit even when it’s been justified - agents don’t want the hassle!!

 Wear and tear is to be expected after 4.5 years!

dispute it through the deposit scheme - the LL has to prove the damage and as you have before pics, they’ll have to provide after pics showing the difference I’d say.

also professional cleaning is the biggest lie out there ... it’sa bit of a run through with the hoover and duster - I’ve never experienced a good ‘professional’ clean ... so you’ve probably done a better job so stand your ground!!

 Good luck