House purchase - No Party Wall agreement

dinoman

Hi all,
Looking to potentially buy a 1940's semi-detached property In the bidding process. But by chance I found out that the next door neighbour who last year acquired the adjoined house next door is currently part way through gutting the existing parts and adding an extension (large double storey adding an additional 90m2 to the existing house). They are about 60-70%% of the way to completion. The extension shell is now water tight. So turns out the owner next door is doing most of the build themselves and removed things such as all the chimney breasts attached to the party wall. They assured us they have done things properly such as install the necessary lintels etc for support. Anyhow turns out that there is no party wall agreement between them and the seller of the house we considering to buy....

We read up about it and believe this should be in place as it falls within the Party Wall Act 1996 - but from my own reading sometimes people do bypass it by playing the "ignorant" card to avoid the potential costs such as hiring a surveyor etc. The sellers don't even know such a thing exists.
Anyone with any advise on whether we should we be put off with buying or what we could do?

Despite reading lots of people ignore this requirement - I suppose our concern is that the neighbour may or may not me a bit of a cowboy and may have damaged any parts of the party wall and there is not record of who's fault it is if something happens. The neighbour is in the construction trade but not a builder. We wouldn't have considered usually but it's in a really nice and popular area. Lots of interest and they always get offers above asking. Anyone with similar experience or advise appreciated!

Doozergirl

The party wall agreement is only in place for the period of works.    In theory, next door could have served notice and the present owner very simply agreed, so there's no guarantee that even doing it properly is doing it properly, iyswim.    

Ultimately, next door are still liable for any damage caused to the building and Building Regulations Approval is still the important thing.  That said, I think there's barely a house in the land that hasn't been messed with over the years and if it hasn't, it's not being maintained properly either.  Nobody pays much attention to next door at all in the conveyancing process.  

I'd say the work is relevant, but you're not in a unique situation.  A party wall agreement could be a gold standard, but on the other hand it could just be a piece of paper.  In some areas of the country, I don't think is much, if any awareness of it.  

It's all about the quality of work next door, yet party wall surveyors don't inspect any of the work afterwards.  It's like planning consent in that respect.  They say yes, but don't check anything unless there's a problem.   Building Control are the ones - you should be able to check whether an application has gone in, but you're not entitled to view any of the inspection notes.  They are not in the public domain.  

Jeepers_Creepers

As above. The extension should have Building Control oversight (unless they've employed their own qualified surveyor for this - unlikely) so, in theory, all the work has to be carried out to the appropriate standards, and this will be checked at 2 or 3 stages by the LA's BCO.

Have a look online for this - make sure the LA does know about it.

stevenway

Steve the Party Wall Surveyor here - party wall agreements (awards) are personal so they run with the owners and NOT the property, sometimes it is possible to have tripartite agreements naming both vendor and buyer but that is unusual.  So, if there is no award with the vendors there is very little you to they can do about it, if next door still has work to do on the party wall then they could serve a notice to you after you have exchanged (before then you are not an "owner" as far as the act is concerned).  If the work is complete (or 70% complete) and there are no further notifiable works (adjacent excavation, building on the boundary, work on the party wall) I'm not sure I would be too concerned.   

"The extension should have Building Control oversight".  remember Building Regulation approval does not involve constant inspection or quality checking and must not be considered as any form of quality approval.  Building Reg approval simply acknowledges that the relevant parts of the work have met the minimum standard necessary to ensure compliance with the Building Act.

dinoman

stevenway said:

Steve the Party Wall Surveyor here - party wall agreements (awards) are personal so they run with the owners and NOT the property, sometimes it is possible to have tripartite agreements naming both vendor and buyer but that is unusual.  So, if there is no award with the vendors there is very little you to they can do about it, if next door still has work to do on the party wall then they could serve a notice to you after you have exchanged (before then you are not an "owner" as far as the act is concerned).  If the work is complete (or 70% complete) and there are no further notifiable works (adjacent excavation, building on the boundary, work on the party wall) I'm not sure I would be too concerned.   

"The extension should have Building Control oversight".  remember Building Regulation approval does not involve constant inspection or quality checking and must not be considered as any form of quality approval.  Building Reg approval simply acknowledges that the relevant parts of the work have met the minimum standard necessary to ensure compliance with the Building Act.

Thank you Steve et al, very helpful.
Steve - so in your professional opinion it's not really anything to worry about considering all the works related to the party wall are complete and the agreement would not be passed on to us anyway?
Basically the associated party wall works are complete. The building extension, foundations, and shell is now all watertight. The chimney breasts already removed. 
What we are thinking to do is proceed and if we are successful get a full building survey on the property highlighting to the surveyor to pay special attention to the party wall and hopefully it is all ok.
Does that sound sensible and the only option we have?

J_B

dinoman said:

What we are thinking to do is proceed and if we are successful get a full building survey on the property highlighting to the surveyor to pay special attention to the party wall and hopefully it is all ok.

Hmm - haven't you got those two things in the wrong order?

dinoman

J_B said:

dinoman said:

What we are thinking to do is proceed and if we are successful get a full building survey on the property highlighting to the surveyor to pay special attention to the party wall and hopefully it is all ok.

Hmm - haven't you got those two things in the wrong order?

I meant proceed (in the sense of bidding for the property to try get a sale agreed with vendor) and if successful, while the conveyancing is being carried out - we can carry out a full building survey in parallel to ensure all is ok before exchange & completion.