*Update* Broken PDT machines

PB82

Morning All,
I was originally going to appeal a parking ticket by copying and pasting the template in the Newbies thread. But then I read about it asking for records of PDT machine payments and realised this may cause an issue (or prove my point.)
I received a parking charge notice (notice to keeper) from Euro Car Parks (England.) The car park in question had 2 payment machines (both of them credit/debit card payments only.)
The first machine said it was out of order so the driver moved to the second machine. This machine aborted payment 3 times (driver tried contactless payment AND inputting their credit card PIN number.)
To all intents and purposes, there were two machines in the car park and the driver tried to pay 3 times using 2 different payment methods. Neither machine would accept payment.
There was nothing stuck to the windscreen upon return to the car - just a NTK through the post. This arrived on the 15th day after the incident.
In this circumstance, should I (as the registered keeper) stick to the template in the Newbies thread? Or should I appeal on the basis that the driver attempted to pay however the machines would not accept?
The pay & display charge was a mere 80p - the PCN received through the post is £100 (reduced to £60 if paid within the allocated timeframe.) The driver would have happily paid the 80p just to avoid all the subsequent messing about. But with one machine out of order and the other machine aborting payments, I'm not sure where this leaves us.
Thanks in advance for any replies!

fisherjim

It still leaves you dealing with scammers follow the newbies advice, they will just come up with an excuse what ever you say, most likely you should have phoned the number on the machine or left the site. You cannot appeal or deal with greedy scammers.

Fruitcake

The appeal template in blue text has two purposes. One is to ensure the driver's identity is not given, and the other is to let the scammers know that the appellant is getting help from this forum.

Of course you can change any part of the template if you wish, but you do so at your own peril.

Did the driver park anyway, or did they leave once they realised they could not pay, which of course would have taken time to do so?

What was the date of the alleged event and the date the NTK was issued. This may differ from the date it was actually received, which at this stage we do not need to know.
The PoFA 2012 and the Interpretation Act presume that the NTK will arrive on the second working day after the issue date. This is the important date, and I hope you understand the significance of what I am saying. If the NTK was presumed to have arrived too late for keeper liability to apply, then of course the keeper cannot be held liable.

You should also check the wording on the NTK to see if it is PoFA compliant and capable of holding the keeper liable. If it isn't for either reason, then a one liner to that effect should be added to the appeal template.

PB82

Fruitcake said:

The appeal template in blue text has two purposes. One is to ensure the driver's identity is not given, and the other is to let the scammers know that the appellant is getting help from this forum.

Of course you can change any part of the template if you wish, but you do so at your own peril.

Did the driver park anyway, or did they leave once they realised they could not pay, which of course would have taken time to do so?

What was the date of the alleged event and the date the NTK was issued. This may differ from the date it was actually received, which at this stage we do not need to know.
The PoFA 2012 and the Interpretation Act presume that the NTK will arrive on the second working day after the issue date. This is the important date, and I hope you understand the significance of what I am saying. If the NTK was presumed to have arrived too late for keeper liability to apply, then of course the keeper cannot be held liable.

You should also check the wording on the NTK to see if it is PoFA compliant and capable of holding the keeper liable. If it isn't for either reason, then a one liner to that effect should be added to the appeal template.

Thanks for this.
The event was on Dec 9th. The NTK was issued on the 18th, and it arrived through my door on the 24th (Christmas eve!!)
I'll double-check the wording to see if it's compliant.

Fruitcake

Sadly it will be deemed to have arrived by day 14 unless you can prove anything to the contrary, which I doubt.
Yes, definitely check the wording against the PoFA. There is a link to the Act in the NEWBIES, or it can easily be found using a search engine of your choice. The wording of paragraph 9 of Schedule 4 of the Act is the important part. 
If you are unsure, post both sides of your redacted NTK here for the regulars to check.

What happened when the keeper complained to the landowner?

Please answer the other questions I asked.

D_P_Dance

Any PPC which allows a broken P&D machine then asks for silly money for an alleged BoC  should be reported to Trading Standards.  Also a complaint should be sent to the relevant MP.   Amy court claim should be met with a counter claim for abuse of data and/or harassment.  The only way to deal with these companies is to fight fire with fire.  

Coupon-mad

ECP use POFA wording.  There is nothing that needs checking and nothing that needs changing in the template appeal.  Nothing is different.

PB82

Thanks, Fruitcake.
The landowner hasn't yet been contacted as the NTK was received on Christmas eve, and opened late on Christmas eve night.  Then of course it was Christmas day & boxing day etc.
The driver parked there anyway. The reason for parking there was an appointment - an appointment which was running late due to the multiple attempts at paying machines that would not accept payment.
Having scoured the NTK against the PoFA section 9 wording, I can't see anything that has been omitted. Unfortunately.

PB82

Coupon-mad said:

ECP use POFA wording.  There is nothing that needs checking and nothing that needs changing in the template appeal.  Nothing is different.

Thanks so much 

Coupon-mad

As advised already, ECP use POFA NTKs.

torvil

I have had a similar appeal/s rejected by ECP & POPLA so following with interest.