UK based funds - brexit and onwards

Ted_01

I'm a lurker on this forum, I don't read every comment, I don't know what Another_Saver did wrong (maybe too opinionated on Bitcoin) , but I miss reading his comments, his depth of knowledge was amazing.

eskbanker

theothersaver said:
for some reason, once you start telling the more extreme Bitcoin cultists on the forum what you really think, even if you are within the forum rules you get banned. I am very disappointed in the moderators for allowing and facilitating this.

Much of it comes down to tone - there's a fine line between contributing to a debate in a polite reasoned manner and hectoring those with a different opinion, so it won't have been your opinions that got you banned but the way in which you chose to express them....

eskbanker

theothersaver said:

eskbanker said:

theothersaver said:
for some reason, once you start telling the more extreme Bitcoin cultists on the forum what you really think, even if you are within the forum rules you get banned. I am very disappointed in the moderators for allowing and facilitating this.

Much of it comes down to tone - there's a fine line between contributing to a debate in a polite reasoned manner and hectoring those with a different opinion, so it won't have been your opinions that got you banned but the way in which you chose to express them....

Then why have none of them been banned?

The MSE forum admin team aren't moderators as such and are quite clear that they're essentially reactive, i.e. assessing content only if/when reported to them, so if you reported posts that you felt contravened the forum rules (which encompass woolly concepts such as being friendly to others as well as more clear-cut aspects) then they presumably must have disagreed with your view, or didn't perceive the posts concerned as warranting a posting ban....

Thrugelmir

Ted_01 said:

I'm a lurker on this forum, I don't read every comment, I don't know what Another_Saver did wrong (maybe too opinionated on Bitcoin) , but I miss reading his comments, his depth of knowledge was amazing.

Give someone a shovel they'll dig a hole for themselves. 

masonic

theothersaver said:

eskbanker said:

theothersaver said:
for some reason, once you start telling the more extreme Bitcoin cultists on the forum what you really think, even if you are within the forum rules you get banned. I am very disappointed in the moderators for allowing and facilitating this.

Much of it comes down to tone - there's a fine line between contributing to a debate in a polite reasoned manner and hectoring those with a different opinion, so it won't have been your opinions that got you banned but the way in which you chose to express them....

Then why have none of them been banned?

I don't think it is a coincidence that recent notable bans have befallen those individuals trolling the bitcoin threads. I don't think any of the people you think should be banned have been involved in that, at least not as obviously as those reprimanded.

BananaRepublic

theothersaver said:

BananaRepublic said:

theothersaver said:

dunstonh said:

theothersaver said:

Moe_The_Bartender said:

theothersaver said:

bowlhead99 said:

theothersaver said:

bowlhead99 said:

masonic said:

theothersaver said:

Well I have gone the way of Ed Gasket.

Sorry to hear your main account got banned. Who were you?

Presumably, Another_Saver who posted on the same topics and has just been banned. And tcallaghan93 and the various ones in between who always said 'what are you talking about' when you mentioned you'd already had the same conversations with their previous accounts.

Another_Saver yes, I don't know who that other account is though. I searched and their account goes back to the middle of last year, it's kind of creepy, sad and stalky how you're obsessed them them. Have you thought about taking a break from the forum if it's having that effect on you?.

They and their other various intermediate accounts liked to talk about the exact same pet topics, from railing against the 'Bitcoin Bros', to regaling us with the stories of their 4 Tesla shares bought and sold at the same times, constructing their portfolio from the same mix of UK-biased tracker funds in the same proportions, tirelessly explaining the difference between FTSE and S&P performance through the concepts of GDP, inflation and speculative return etc, while coincidentally being the same age etc etc .  

Sure, you don't know who that other account and the several other banned accounts with the same characteristics are, it's all just coincidence pointed out by a stalker who must be obsessed. Probably some will believe that. Can we believe you 'won't be returning'? I'm not so sure.  Anyway good luck and see you again soon.

I have reported you for harassment. A break would do you and the forum good.

If you have an actual point to make, make it, and feel free to use all the sarcasm you like.

If you don't have a point to make, why are you replying? Shall I assume that you have finally acknowledged I have proven myself right and you wrong? The lack of a single point in these baseless ad hominem attacks seems to support that conclusion.

All you had to do was say so, so long mate   

You said you wouldn’t be returning and yet here you are again. Please, just go. You have nothing to contribute.

Aside from comprehensively and empirically debunking every common myth about the FTSE 100.

Let us know when you are going to do that.  It will make interesting reading and something we can all discuss.

Apologies if I didn't make clear, follow the link below (I can't post links on this account yet hence the spaces in it). The document 'post' is the main text, a supporting spreadsheet and chart is included.
drive.google . com/drive/folders/1TbTcWjTS_G-qJcvATnsiCeQu3hWKyF48?usp=sharing

Everything I want to say is in the document.

I get a graph with no y axis label, hence it’s meaningless, and two documents I can’t open. Look, I’ve seen historical return curves of the FTSE 100 going back 20+ years showing mediocre returns. Many years ago I stupidly invested in FTSE 100 index funds. It’s a stinker. 

@BananaRepublic

Apologies, I have uploaded the post document as a PDF and correllation spreadsheet in CSV format. If opening in a browser does not work, try downloading. These are more common formats so should work.

The graph is in real logarithmic terms indexed to 0 so that all datasets have the same start value to make visually comparing them over time easy. The y values would be meaningless, feel free to use the data to create your own chart.

Link (again you will need change "google . com" to "google.com") : https://drive.google . com/drive/folders/1TbTcWjTS_G-qJcvATnsiCeQu3hWKyF48?usp=sharing

@dunstonh you asked to be updated also.

Prism said:

theothersaver said:

bowlhead99 said:

theothersaver said:

bowlhead99 said:

masonic said:

theothersaver said:

Well I have gone the way of Ed Gasket.

Sorry to hear your main account got banned. Who were you?

Presumably, Another_Saver who posted on the same topics and has just been banned. And tcallaghan93 and the various ones in between who always said 'what are you talking about' when you mentioned you'd already had the same conversations with their previous accounts.

Another_Saver yes, I don't know who that other account is though. I searched and their account goes back to the middle of last year, it's kind of creepy, sad and stalky how you're obsessed them them. Have you thought about taking a break from the forum if it's having that effect on you?.

They and their other various intermediate accounts liked to talk about the exact same pet topics, from railing against the 'Bitcoin Bros', to regaling us with the stories of their 4 Tesla shares bought and sold at the same times, constructing their portfolio from the same mix of UK-biased tracker funds in the same proportions, tirelessly explaining the difference between FTSE and S&P performance through the concepts of GDP, inflation and speculative return etc, while coincidentally being the same age etc etc .  

Sure, you don't know who that other account and the several other banned accounts with the same characteristics are, it's all just coincidence pointed out by a stalker who must be obsessed. Probably some will believe that. Can we believe you 'won't be returning'? I'm not so sure.  Anyway good luck and see you again soon.

I have reported you for harassment. A break would do you and the forum good.

If you have an actual point to make, make it, and feel free to use all the sarcasm you like.

If you don't have a point to make, why are you replying? Shall I assume that you have finally acknowledged I have proven myself right and you wrong? The lack of a single point in these baseless ad hominem attacks seems to support that conclusion.

All you had to do was say so, so long mate   

Its a shame really as I thought the Another_saver version of you was a much more pleasant and helpful alias than the others - and then for some reason you went and raged against the bitcoin followers...

@Prism , for some reason, once you start telling the more extreme Bitcoin cultists on the forum what you really think, even if you are within the forum rules you get banned. I am very disappointed in the moderators for allowing and facilitating this.

Ted_01 said:

I'm a lurker on this forum, I don't read every comment, I don't know what Another_Saver did wrong (maybe too opinionated on Bitcoin) , but I miss reading his comments, his depth of knowledge was amazing.

@Ted_01, why thank you, appreciation is always appreciated.

I really can’t make head nor tail of your data, the graph is meaningless, and anyway I don’t trust your data. 

It’s easy enough to see the long  term performance of FTSE 100 index funds. For example, go to this search tool:

https://www.youinvest.co.uk/research-tools/quickrank/fund

In the Morningstar Category select UK Large Cap Equity, in the distributions field select Acc, and in the name field enter ‘index’. Search. Then select the performance tab. You’ll see that there are many funds that track the FTSE 100 index, and performance over ten years is mediocre. You will see the same irrespective of which fund comparison tool you use. The long term performance of the FTSE 100 with dividends reinvested over the last  ten years is just over 7% / year. An index tracker fund won’t give you that, not even 6%.

Over a period of ten years during the lifetime of the FTSE 100, the worst total return is about 0%: 
 https://www.ig.com/uk/trading-strategies/what-are-the-average-returns-of-the-ftse-100--200529#information-banner-dismiss
Over the last 20 years ten year returns have varied from 0% to 8% / year. 
Over the same periods that my FTSE 100 index fund did poorly, my active funds in Europe and elsewhere were giving me twice as much yearly % returns. 

It was crap 20 years ago when I foolishly invested in some UK FTSE 100 index funds. It’s crap today. 

So, you’ve got independent sources saying you are wrong, you’ve got a fully qualified IFA telling you that you are wrong, so you might need to have a think. 

BananaRepublic

theothersaver said:

BananaRepublic said:

theothersaver said:

BananaRepublic said:

theothersaver said:

BananaRepublic said:

theothersaver said:

dunstonh said:

theothersaver said:

Moe_The_Bartender said:

theothersaver said:

bowlhead99 said:

theothersaver said:

bowlhead99 said:

masonic said:

theothersaver said:

Well I have gone the way of Ed Gasket.

Sorry to hear your main account got banned. Who were you?

Presumably, Another_Saver who posted on the same topics and has just been banned. And tcallaghan93 and the various ones in between who always said 'what are you talking about' when you mentioned you'd already had the same conversations with their previous accounts.

Another_Saver yes, I don't know who that other account is though. I searched and their account goes back to the middle of last year, it's kind of creepy, sad and stalky how you're obsessed them them. Have you thought about taking a break from the forum if it's having that effect on you?.

They and their other various intermediate accounts liked to talk about the exact same pet topics, from railing against the 'Bitcoin Bros', to regaling us with the stories of their 4 Tesla shares bought and sold at the same times, constructing their portfolio from the same mix of UK-biased tracker funds in the same proportions, tirelessly explaining the difference between FTSE and S&P performance through the concepts of GDP, inflation and speculative return etc, while coincidentally being the same age etc etc .  

Sure, you don't know who that other account and the several other banned accounts with the same characteristics are, it's all just coincidence pointed out by a stalker who must be obsessed. Probably some will believe that. Can we believe you 'won't be returning'? I'm not so sure.  Anyway good luck and see you again soon.

I have reported you for harassment. A break would do you and the forum good.

If you have an actual point to make, make it, and feel free to use all the sarcasm you like.

If you don't have a point to make, why are you replying? Shall I assume that you have finally acknowledged I have proven myself right and you wrong? The lack of a single point in these baseless ad hominem attacks seems to support that conclusion.

All you had to do was say so, so long mate   

You said you wouldn’t be returning and yet here you are again. Please, just go. You have nothing to contribute.

Aside from comprehensively and empirically debunking every common myth about the FTSE 100.

Let us know when you are going to do that.  It will make interesting reading and something we can all discuss.

Apologies if I didn't make clear, follow the link below (I can't post links on this account yet hence the spaces in it). The document 'post' is the main text, a supporting spreadsheet and chart is included.
drive.google . com/drive/folders/1TbTcWjTS_G-qJcvATnsiCeQu3hWKyF48?usp=sharing

Everything I want to say is in the document.

I get a graph with no y axis label, hence it’s meaningless, and two documents I can’t open. Look, I’ve seen historical return curves of the FTSE 100 going back 20+ years showing mediocre returns. Many years ago I stupidly invested in FTSE 100 index funds. It’s a stinker. 

@BananaRepublic

Apologies, I have uploaded the post document as a PDF and correllation spreadsheet in CSV format. If opening in a browser does not work, try downloading. These are more common formats so should work.

The graph is in real logarithmic terms indexed to 0 so that all datasets have the same start value to make visually comparing them over time easy. The y values would be meaningless, feel free to use the data to create your own chart.

Link (again you will need change "google . com" to "google.com") : https://drive.google . com/drive/folders/1TbTcWjTS_G-qJcvATnsiCeQu3hWKyF48?usp=sharing

@dunstonh you asked to be updated also.

Prism said:

theothersaver said:

bowlhead99 said:

theothersaver said:

bowlhead99 said:

masonic said:

theothersaver said:

Well I have gone the way of Ed Gasket.

Sorry to hear your main account got banned. Who were you?

Presumably, Another_Saver who posted on the same topics and has just been banned. And tcallaghan93 and the various ones in between who always said 'what are you talking about' when you mentioned you'd already had the same conversations with their previous accounts.

Another_Saver yes, I don't know who that other account is though. I searched and their account goes back to the middle of last year, it's kind of creepy, sad and stalky how you're obsessed them them. Have you thought about taking a break from the forum if it's having that effect on you?.

They and their other various intermediate accounts liked to talk about the exact same pet topics, from railing against the 'Bitcoin Bros', to regaling us with the stories of their 4 Tesla shares bought and sold at the same times, constructing their portfolio from the same mix of UK-biased tracker funds in the same proportions, tirelessly explaining the difference between FTSE and S&P performance through the concepts of GDP, inflation and speculative return etc, while coincidentally being the same age etc etc .  

Sure, you don't know who that other account and the several other banned accounts with the same characteristics are, it's all just coincidence pointed out by a stalker who must be obsessed. Probably some will believe that. Can we believe you 'won't be returning'? I'm not so sure.  Anyway good luck and see you again soon.

I have reported you for harassment. A break would do you and the forum good.

If you have an actual point to make, make it, and feel free to use all the sarcasm you like.

If you don't have a point to make, why are you replying? Shall I assume that you have finally acknowledged I have proven myself right and you wrong? The lack of a single point in these baseless ad hominem attacks seems to support that conclusion.

All you had to do was say so, so long mate   

Its a shame really as I thought the Another_saver version of you was a much more pleasant and helpful alias than the others - and then for some reason you went and raged against the bitcoin followers...

@Prism , for some reason, once you start telling the more extreme Bitcoin cultists on the forum what you really think, even if you are within the forum rules you get banned. I am very disappointed in the moderators for allowing and facilitating this.

Ted_01 said:

I'm a lurker on this forum, I don't read every comment, I don't know what Another_Saver did wrong (maybe too opinionated on Bitcoin) , but I miss reading his comments, his depth of knowledge was amazing.

@Ted_01, why thank you, appreciation is always appreciated.

I really can’t make head nor tail of your data, the graph is meaningless, and anyway I don’t trust your data. 

It’s easy enough to see the long  term performance of FTSE 100 index funds. For example, go to this search tool:

https://www.youinvest.co.uk/research-tools/quickrank/fund

In the Morningstar Category select UK Large Cap Equity, in the distributions field select Acc, and in the name field enter ‘index’. Search. Then select the performance tab. You’ll see that there are many funds that track the FTSE 100 index, and performance over ten years is mediocre. You will see the same irrespective of which fund comparison tool you use. The long term performance of the FTSE 100 with dividends reinvested over the last  ten years is just over 7% / year. An index tracker fund won’t give you that, not even 6%.

Over a period of ten years during the lifetime of the FTSE 100, the worst total return is about 0%: 
 https://www.ig.com/uk/trading-strategies/what-are-the-average-returns-of-the-ftse-100--200529#information-banner-dismiss
Over the last 20 years ten year returns have varied from 0% to 8% / year. 
Over the same periods that my FTSE 100 index fund did poorly, my active funds in Europe and elsewhere were giving me twice as much yearly % returns. 

It was crap 20 years ago when I foolishly invested in some UK FTSE 100 index funds. It’s crap today. 

So, you’ve got independent sources saying you are wrong, you’ve got a fully qualified IFA telling you that you are wrong, so you might need to have a think. 

Your source does not disagree with or disprove any of what I have said.
I have provided all of the sources for everything I said in the "Post" document and "Correlation" spreadsheet. Please specify what you do not agree with or believe to be wrong, which sources you do not believe credible, where I have made mistakes etc. and I will endeavour to make corrections, I would also appreciate if you could explain what your actual point is, thanks.

Are you being deliberately obtuse or thick?

You said you had refuted my statement that the FTSE 100 index is poor. The links in my earlier post prove my statement. 

This is your link if anyone else is daft enough to read it:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1TbTcWjTS_G-qJcvATnsiCeQu3hWKyF48

It’s almost impossible for me to read those documents because the viewer doesn’t work on an iPad. In any case I don’t have the time or desire to read your self indulgent ramblings. 

The main document to read is called Post.pdf, I am sure an iPad can open a pdf.
The data sources for the chart are the ONS for UK GDP, Barclays Equity gilts study for UK stock index data, and multpl.com for US data. All I have done is to convert the raw data into real terms (using the difference between real and nominal GDP in ONS data, US CPI directly from multpl.com), then into logarithmic terms, then indexed all series to 0 to have a common start point. The chart shows the growth of UK GDP, the UK stock index (based on the ft30 from 1948-1962, the FTSE all share thereafter), and that index's dividend from 1948-2019. The last page of the pdf shows the relative growth rates and correlations between GDP and stock indices in nominal, real, logarithmic nominal and logarithmic real terms.

The links you provided can be summarised as "the FTSE 100 has done crap the last 10 and 20 years". I address this in the pdf, (edit), see Myths #4 and #5.

You're welcome.

I posted links to long term and short term % returns with dividends reinvested. YouInvest will tell you real returns from FTSE 100 index funds. Those ain’t myths sunshine. 

I doubt anyone wants to waste their time reading your long winded, convoluted documents, even if they could read them which I can’t. 

cricidmuslibale

(because this new account will hopefully get banned soon) Why would you wish this on yourself if I may ask please?

BananaRepublic

Anyway, that was a pointless detour, back on the main road ...

The boss of Nissan has said that the Brexit deal is very positive for them:
https://www.ft.com/content/d2489ca9-0327-4a85-88c8-d6e7ca4eca55
This was not reported by the BBC (1), not surprisingly. 

And the UK leads Europe in vaccinations. Plus the Oxford Astra Zeneca vaccine is the cheapest in the world, and is already being made in India to help Indians. It is sold at cost price and not for profit, something to be proud of. 

I have lots on the UK markets, and I see no reason to change. I have no idea how much a bad Brexit was factored in to the prices, but I’m sure once thecteething troubles are sorted, it’ll do well. 

(1) I meant to say BBC news web site, a very odd beast. 

Ted_01

Yes yes yes, I hope everyone can be friends again now