All-In-One PC Choice

TCA

Setting aside the computing aspect for a moment and thinking aloud, would a separate monitor with an HDMI input and speakers be able to play internet content via something like a NOW TV stick or Google Chromecast?

Mickey666

TCA said:

Looking at picking up an all-in-one pc and like the look of a couple from HP but could do with a steer.

Both specs will more than cover my basic requirements (internet surfing, email, video streaming, spreadsheets, word processing, music/photos storage), but wondering if anyone can give a steer on which they'd go for.

Since this is a money saving forum, here's a curve-ball suggestion:  an RPi-400 
 https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/raspberry-pi-400/

OK, OK, don't laugh, I'm being serious.  Before I attempt to justify this suggestion I should perhaps state my PC 'credentials'.  My main 'home office' PC is a 32GB core-i5 dual-screen PC with an SSD boot drive and 2x 4TB internal hard drives.  Earlier this year I bought a custom-built core-i7 based PC for around £1800 as a dedicated PC for video editing and music production.  We also have a Windows Surface Pro tablet and an iPad Pro, plus an 4TB NAS for all file and mutimedia storage.  That's not to 'show off' but to put the following comment into context.

A week ago I bought myself a new 'toy' - the Raspberry Pi 400.  I have in mind a specific use for it (not really relevant here) but in the meantime I hooked it up to an old LCD screen and have been using it all week instead of my iPad Pro for general web surfing, video streaming (mainly via YouTube) and playing music from my NAS library.  I can honestly report that I've been amazed at its performance . . . it has been indistinguishable from my iPad Pro!  It also comes pre-loaded with Libre-Office which is MS-Office compatible.  I can't claim to have done exhaustive tests on this but I have opened a few of my MS-Word and MS-Excel files using it and it seems perfectly fine.  I've also used it for minor photo processing (cropping and resizing mainly) and it has also been fine.  So, based on my limited experience it will do everything mentioned as the OP's basic requirements . . . and all for just £103!  (Or even cheaper if you don't by the full kit).

It really is ridiculously good for the price.  And cheap enough to 'give it a try', which is pretty much what I did, only to be amazed by how functional it really is.  It is genuinely 'plug-and-play', boots up within 20 seconds and requires no configuration other than setting up the wifi password.  It has built-in bluetooth and connected effortlessly to my bluetooth speaker (JBL Flip5).  I currently have it standing in the corner of the kitchen and it was playing music all through the Christmas lunch preparations and was conveniently 'on hand' for any bit of web surfing required.  It even played the Queens speech with no problem.

I suppose its major limitation is lack of local storage, though that's not an issue for me because of my NAS.  But it does have three USB ports (two of them being USB 3.0) so adding local storage is simple enough if you really need it.  It can even support TWO screens and I reckon it really could replace my 'home office' PC.  It's not going to replace anything that needs some real 'grunt' computing power but for everyday 'typical' use it really is a contender.  It also qualifies as an AIO computer, it's just that the computer is built into the keyboard instead of the screen, though I'd say that's an advantage really because it means it's just as easy to plug into a smallish screen for 'office' work or a large TV screen for streaming videos.

I've long thought that computing power has outstripped the needs of the vast majority of people and with the exception of higher performance applications such as graphics-intensive gaming, multi-track music production, video processing etc, the RPi-400 is proof of this.  Web browsing, email, word processing, spreadsheets, playing music, streaming videos - the RPi-400 can do it all.  I'm amazed that it can, but it really can, and for £100 it's cheap enough to give it a go.

jsmith9

Sounds wonderful - but I bet it's not powerful enough to install a Windows update...!

fred246

Windows and Microsoft are the reason why people aren't using these computers. Microsoft have an arrangement with schools and universities and my kids are all given Office for free. So if I used it it wouldn't be long before my kids were moaning. Ironically the Pi is for 'educational use'. Microsoft use all their power to keep people on Windows.

Mickey666

jsmith9 said:

Sounds wonderful - but I bet it's not powerful enough to install a Windows update...!

Fortunately, it doesn't need to.

TCA

The Raspberry Pi 400 is an interesting one. As @Mickey666 noted, it would cover my very basic computing needs but reading a couple of reviews it doesn't seem able to stream Netflix and the like, without tweaking and updating.

That in itself isn't a show-stopper but it brings me back to my earlier question about whether a monitor with HDMI input and speakers would stream content from a NOW TV stick?

If so, a new monitor and Raspberry Pi 400 (or equivalent) might cover all the bases.

Mickey666

fred246 said:

Windows and Microsoft are the reason why people aren't using these computers. Microsoft have an arrangement with schools and universities and my kids are all given Office for free. So if I used it it wouldn't be long before my kids were moaning. Ironically the Pi is for 'educational use'. Microsoft use all their power to keep people on Windows.

Fair point.  It's amazing how Microsoft have brainwashed the IT world into needing their operating system.  What is even more amazing is how they've made an operating system a subject for discussion at all. 
How many car drivers really care about what is under the bonnet?  I'd argue that the vast majority don't and it's the same with a PC.  Sure, there are the 'experts' and the 'keen fiddlers' who love nothing more than tweaking things, but the vast majority of people just want to browse the web, or send an email, 'zoom' a friend or post on Facebook.  They don't even need to understand what an operating system does.
Facebook is a good example.  People use it quite happily on their PC, on their iPad and on their phone and the vast majority of them won't realise that all those devices use a different operating system, of which only one is MS-Windows.  I've been using Facebook on my RPi400 and it's exactly the same as on any of those other devices, with the minor exception of a few layout differences, but those differences are due entirely to different BROWSERS and not the underlying operating system.
And this is precisely where Microsoft have been so successful - by bundling APPLICATIONS into Window and thus confusing the vast majority of users about what actually constitutes an operating system.  Yes, we all NEED an operating system on our computing devices, just as we all need an engine in our car, but we don't need to 'know' about it to use it.  Petrol cars are driven in the same way as a diesel car and electric cars will be just the same as far as the driver is concerned.  So would a hydrogen-powered car, an LPG-powered car or a yet-to-be-invented-engine-powered car.
Most people routinely managed to quite happily use their windows PC at the same as using their non-windows smartphone (in fact phones are an example of Microsoft's spectacular failures over many years) because the underlying operating system is (mostly) irrelevant to most people.

You're right that the RPi was launched as an 'educational computer' and it's fair to say that it was not, indeed could not, really be aimed at most users because of the amount of fiddling and tweaking required back then.  Great for a few users but not the majority.  The old 80/20 rule probably applies, as it does with many things.  But they've certainly developed things considerably since then and the RPI-400 is, I'd say a game-changer in this respect because there is absolutely no fiddling or tweaking required.  It 'just works' straight out of the box and for £100 it's a steal.

Mickey666

TCA said:

The Raspberry Pi 400 is an interesting one. As @Mickey666 noted, it would cover my very basic computing needs but reading a couple of reviews it doesn't seem able to stream Netflix and the like, without tweaking and updating.

That in itself isn't a show-stopper but it brings me back to my earlier question about whether a monitor with HDMI input and speakers would stream content from a NOW TV stick?

If so, a new monitor and Raspberry Pi 400 (or equivalent) might cover all the bases.

I just checked this by signing into Netflix using my RPi-400.  Sign-in was fine but it wouldn't play anything without further tweaking, mainly because of DRM issues according to this article on what to do to play Netflix content.
https://pimylifeup.com/raspberry-pi-netflix/

I don't have a NowTV stick so can't comment on that, but if it can handle DRM issues in the stick then perhaps it's easier?  I guess there will be loads of websites out there for this issue That's the amazing thing about the web - someone, somewhere will have already encountered the issue and quite likely have fixed it, if possible.

fred246

I knew a company that sold computer base units for £200. They were sold 'without operating system' so you could install your own Windows. However they were shipped with linux which included Firefox and OpenOffice. Of course everyone got them and just turned them on. They booted really quickly and clicked on Firefox and were soon surfing. Then they tried Open Office which was free and that was fine. So they put rave reviews on the internet. Then I spotted that the owner put on his Facebook page "just been wined and dined by Microsoft". After that his website said "All PCs shipped with Windows".

Mickey666

fred246 said:

I knew a company that sold computer base units for £200. They were sold 'without operating system' so you could install your own Windows. However they were shipped with linux which included Firefox and OpenOffice. Of course everyone got them and just turned them on. They booted really quickly and clicked on Firefox and were soon surfing. Then they tried Open Office which was free and that was fine. So they put rave reviews on the internet. Then I spotted that the owner put on his Facebook page "just been wined and dined by Microsoft". After that his website said "All PCs shipped with Windows".

I can well believe it.  Microsoft have a huge vested interest in PCs shipping with windows, just as they had a huge vested interest in bundling IE with Windows, thus blurring the lines between applications and the operating system, and for which they got into trouble for anti-competitive practices in various places - the EU being one of them.
I'd say Linux has been it's own worst enemy really.  It's very ethos (open source, free etc) has worked against it having the backing of global corporations to champion it in the way that Apple, Microsoft and Google have promoted their own operating systems.  That, and the fact that early Linux releases, while equally capable, really required a fair degree of 'computer competence' from its users - no matter how easy they SAID it was.  It was really only 'easy' if you were already pretty competent with such things, which of course most users are not.  It's the old 80/20 rule again.

But it's interesting to compare the decades Microsoft spent promoting their 'windows everywhere' vision - and failing - with Google's success with Android so they are not invincible and with Apple's recent adoption of ARM technology the whole "WinTel' dominance is going to take another hit.  I don't believe for a moment that the RPi is going to trouble any of these players but it's yet another example of how computing technology and raw power is now exceeding the needs of most people (that 80/20 rule yet again).  Incidentally, if you are a bit of a 'hacker' and like to 'play' with this sort of thing, the RPi Zero is about half the size of a credit card, can be bought for less that £10 and - to use a oft quoted but true, cliche - has more power than the computer on Apollo 11


PS:  Just for the avoidance of any doubt, I'm aware that I'm being a bit gushing about my new RPi-400 'toy' but I can assure you that it's NOT because I have been recently (or ever) wined and dined by the Raspberry Pi Foundation