Rental - Garden wall fallen overnight

Pianoman1

Our garden wall has blown down overnight. We have no neighboring houses and a full view from the main road into the back of our house.
Are there security obligations for the landlord/letting agent to put up security fencing? 
I have a very difficult letting agent and need to know what my rights are here.
If i was to pay myself, can I take this out of the rent? Who long is considered a "delay" if the letting agent is doing something about it?

tacpot12

There are no obligations on the landlord to put up security fencing unless your tenancy agreement makes it clear that you are entitled to a secure  boundary, but if any part of the remaining wall is unsafe, the landlord can be sued if someone is injured, so they would be advised to ensure no-one can injure themselves. 

If you want to put up security fencing yourself, you can do so, but you can't take it out of the rent.

The wall should be repaired, but realistically it is going to take three months or so to get the wall rebuilt (at a minimum). If the landlord doesn't have accidental insurance, it may never get rebuilt. You need to make it clear to the  landlord that you will give notice and move out unless the wall is repaired within six months. They will find it difficult to let the property if the wall isn't removed. 

wilfred30

Pianoman1 said:

Our garden wall has blown down overnight. We have no neighboring houses and a full view from the main road into the back of our house.
Are there security obligations for the landlord/letting agent to put up security fencing? No
I have a very difficult letting agent and need to know what my rights are here.
If i was to pay myself, can I take this out of the rent?  No  Who long is considered a "delay" if the letting agent is doing something about it?

It has literally just happened and today is Christmas Eve so I think it's unlikely that it will be sorted out much before the New Year.

greatcrested

You have a legal duty to act in a 'tenant like manner'. That means properly reporting damage. So you must write to the landlord, using the address provided "for serving notices on the landlord", advising him of the damage, and requesting the fence be repaired or replaced, and asking for a timeframe.

Either separately, or within the letter, you could also about replacement with 'security fencing'. He may or may not agree, but I see no reason wy he is obliged to.

If he refuses, that would be the time to suggest you would be willing to pay if he gave his consent.

No, you can definately not pay for it yourself and take it out of the rent unless you have first got the LL's agreement in writing. If you do

a) you will be in rent arrears and

b) he could force you to remove the new fencing, at your cost.

As for 'delay' or 'reasonable time' - this is not like a leaking roof or broken boiler. It is not urgent. Plus it is Christmas. Plus arguably the LL has no legal obligation to replace the fence at all........

Pianoman1

greatcrested said:

You have a legal duty to act in a 'tenant like manner'. That means properly reporting damage. So you must write to the landlord, using the address provided "for serving notices on the landlord", advising him of the damage, and requesting the fence be repaired or replaced, and asking for a timeframe.

Either separately, or within the letter, you could also about replacement with 'security fencing'. He may or may not agree, but I see no reason wy he is obliged to.

If he refuses, that would be the time to suggest you would be willing to pay if he gave his consent.

No, you can definately not pay for it yourself and take it out of the rent unless you have first got the LL's agreement in writing. If you do

a) you will be in rent arrears and

b) he could force you to remove the new fencing, at your cost.

As for 'delay' or 'reasonable time' - this is not like a leaking roof or broken boiler. It is not urgent. Plus it is Christmas. Plus arguably the LL has no legal obligation to replace the fence at all........

Thanks, that's good info.
Are emails a sufficient form of notice in writing or do we still need to send a letter?
I normally wouldn't consider this urgent, but our house and wall (the one that fell) is bordering public communal land, with a public path running alongside and at a main road at 90 degrees. It's the back garden wall and it's a ground floor bungalow with the bedrooms at the back of the house, so it feels very unsecure. We also have a toddler.
I don't expect any major work done over the holidays, but if i was a landlord or letting agent, i would have at least tried to see if i could get some security/safety fencing in place. It's obvious to them the property is really exposed.
Are you saying they have no legal obligation to even replace the wall at all? I can't see how that is possible. I don't care if it's a fence or a wall, as long as they put something in place in the long run.

dimbo61

Email him, text him, WhatsApp him and write a letter.
If you have his email address take a photo and attach to email.
The sooner you inform him the better.
You want quiet enjoyment but he won't know the wall has fallen down unless you tell him.

greatcrested

The postal address is provided by law and is best if there is any possibility of  a future legal dispute. It is part of formal legal processes.

However using other, faster media are fine for convenience. As dimbo61 says, use both.

There is no general requirement for boundary fences/walls between or around properties, unless the property Title has a covenant requiring one.

There is also no general requirement under tenancy law.

However it may fall under a Health & Safety requirement. Take a look through The Housing Health & Safety Rating System

Irrespective of any legal requirement, I'd expect most reasonable LLs to at the least repair/replace the existing broken wall, and also to consider improving it.

Thrugelmir

If people wish to access a property , a six fooot wall/fence isn't going to stop them. 

GDB2222

Pianoman1 said:

greatcrested said:

You have a legal duty to act in a 'tenant like manner'. That means properly reporting damage. So you must write to the landlord, using the address provided "for serving notices on the landlord", advising him of the damage, and requesting the fence be repaired or replaced, and asking for a timeframe.

Either separately, or within the letter, you could also about replacement with 'security fencing'. He may or may not agree, but I see no reason wy he is obliged to.

If he refuses, that would be the time to suggest you would be willing to pay if he gave his consent.

No, you can definately not pay for it yourself and take it out of the rent unless you have first got the LL's agreement in writing. If you do

a) you will be in rent arrears and

b) he could force you to remove the new fencing, at your cost.

As for 'delay' or 'reasonable time' - this is not like a leaking roof or broken boiler. It is not urgent. Plus it is Christmas. Plus arguably the LL has no legal obligation to replace the fence at all........

Thanks, that's good info.
Are emails a sufficient form of notice in writing or do we still need to send a letter?
I normally wouldn't consider this urgent, but our house and wall (the one that fell) is bordering public communal land, with a public path running alongside and at a main road at 90 degrees. It's the back garden wall and it's a ground floor bungalow with the bedrooms at the back of the house, so it feels very unsecure. We also have a toddler.
I don't expect any major work done over the holidays, but if i was a landlord or letting agent, i would have at least tried to see if i could get some security/safety fencing in place. It's obvious to them the property is really exposed.
Are you saying they have no legal obligation to even replace the wall at all? I can't see how that is possible. I don't care if it's a fence or a wall, as long as they put something in place in the long run.

The lease will say how you should serve formal notice. That may well include email. 

However, you  are informing the LL about a repair issue, and as long as you get the message across that’s the most important. Regardless of the legal niceties, he’s not actually going to claim that you failed to inform him of the situation because you emailed. 

The lease will set out the landlord’s obligations. What does that say about repairs to the wall? The practicality is that he is going to have to do something about it sooner or later, so he might as well get on with it. If you leave, he’ll have more agency fees plus a void. So, it’s in his interest to keep you happy. That might mean he’s happy to put some netting up to keep your toddler in, although that won’t make the place secure against criminals. He’s unlikely to want to pay for a temporary fence as well as the repairs.

High walls actually help criminals, as they hide them from view. 

Before you let the child out, please give the wall a good push to check that no more is going to fall down. You could use a broom, so you are not standing next to it.

davidmcn

GDB2222 said:

Pianoman1 said:

greatcrested said:

You have a legal duty to act in a 'tenant like manner'. That means properly reporting damage. So you must write to the landlord, using the address provided "for serving notices on the landlord", advising him of the damage, and requesting the fence be repaired or replaced, and asking for a timeframe.

Either separately, or within the letter, you could also about replacement with 'security fencing'. He may or may not agree, but I see no reason wy he is obliged to.

If he refuses, that would be the time to suggest you would be willing to pay if he gave his consent.

No, you can definately not pay for it yourself and take it out of the rent unless you have first got the LL's agreement in writing. If you do

a) you will be in rent arrears and

b) he could force you to remove the new fencing, at your cost.

As for 'delay' or 'reasonable time' - this is not like a leaking roof or broken boiler. It is not urgent. Plus it is Christmas. Plus arguably the LL has no legal obligation to replace the fence at all........

Thanks, that's good info.
Are emails a sufficient form of notice in writing or do we still need to send a letter?
I normally wouldn't consider this urgent, but our house and wall (the one that fell) is bordering public communal land, with a public path running alongside and at a main road at 90 degrees. It's the back garden wall and it's a ground floor bungalow with the bedrooms at the back of the house, so it feels very unsecure. We also have a toddler.
I don't expect any major work done over the holidays, but if i was a landlord or letting agent, i would have at least tried to see if i could get some security/safety fencing in place. It's obvious to them the property is really exposed.
Are you saying they have no legal obligation to even replace the wall at all? I can't see how that is possible. I don't care if it's a fence or a wall, as long as they put something in place in the long run.

Before you let the child out, please give the wall a good push to check that no more is going to fall down. You could use a broom, so you are not standing next to it.

Yes, I would say the only urgent issue here is whether anything else is likely to collapse. Building control at the council can carry out any emergency work needed if there's no luck getting the landlord to do so.

HampshireH

Must have been quite unsafe before it blew down.

Walls don't just fall over😳

If the communal land is Council they may expect s clear up job to be done ASAP to remove all wall debris from their land due to H&S and also risk of opportunists putting a brick through a window.

How big was this wall  that fell down? How much is left?

I had to deal with a wobbly wall at a customer's home once. It literally pushed over onto council land. God knows how the residents never noticed or reported how unstable it was.

A bit of orange plastic fencing and some posts acted as a temporary safety exclusion zone for passer bys once the wall had been pushed over so no-one else could have a go.