Tenants from hell, advice needed...

wmat983

2 years ago I received a grant from the council to do building works on my buy to let, in return I had to make my home available for 2 years to a housing association once work had been completed. 

I got tenants in and they started falling behind on rent, I thought no problem after 2 or 3 months I can apply from direct payments from Universal Credit so its not ideal but at least they won't fall any further behind. I started getting direct payments and a small amount from the arrears also. Recently they found a way around this by splitting up and starting single claim so the direct payments get broken then after I set back up after a month or two they would get back together so each time this happens the direct payments to me get broken and payments go to them which they have no intention in paying. I have always found my own tenants in the past which have all been brilliant so I've been a bit more lenient.

Anyway I've had my doubts that anyone has  been living there for a while, in the summer had no windows open during 30 degree heat. I drove past in evenings as I live nearby and a downstairs living room light was on so I thought maybe they are living there then. Now its winter upstairs bedroom window is wide open and has been for weeks. Today I looked a bit more closely and the back garden is covered in black bags and looking through the blinds (there was a gap). It was messy, no cushions on chairs, TV bracket on wall with no TV on it. It's clear as day nobody is living there. They are clearly committing fraud claiming for a house and not living there, I can't say I've been snooping around and even if I did say I was they could just say we stayed at my mums for the night or something.

I thought it was better for me to keep them there and get direct payments and also money off the arrears but each time they break the payments and steal the rent payment it wipes out all the little arrears payments I have been receiving.

So long story short I believe they are claiming and not living there and committing fraud, is there any way I can recoup some of the arrears or just what should I do?

anselld

How long has it been going on for?  What is the total arrears?  When did you serve s8 notice?

dimbo61

With the current situation regarding evictions and courts, bailiffs it might be very very difficult to evict the current tenants.
You have rented the property out via the housing association for the 2 years required so maybe time to take back control and start eviction process.
Sell property and give up being a Landlord

wmat983

anselld said:

How long has it been going on for?  What is the total arrears?  When did you serve s8 notice?

5 Months arrears, I've been given promises from Universal credit that the case manager that he was aware what they have been doing and would keep an eye on it and any time they done it he would automatically set up the direct payments without me having to reapply. Most recent time its happened though they have been assigned a new case manager which is unaware of what's been happening and doesn't seem as helpful as last. I haven't issued S8 as of yet, I thought it was best to keep them there as long as possible as I would be getting arrears payments and also rent payments but they have found a way around this.

wmat983

dimbo61 said:

With the current situation regarding evictions and courts, bailiffs it might be very very difficult to evict the current tenants.
You have rented the property out via the housing association for the 2 years required so maybe time to take back control and start eviction process.
Sell property and give up being a Landlord

Yes I think you are right, I have been clinging onto the fact if direct payments are in place plus arrears payments then I would chip away at the arrears and get some money back rather than losing it all and getting house back. Like you say the 2 years is up now so I think I need to start the eviction process. Is there any way of getting any of the arrears back? Would you report them for benefit fraud?

Crashy_Time

welshmatt983 said:

anselld said:

How long has it been going on for?  What is the total arrears?  When did you serve s8 notice?

5 Months arrears, I've been given promises from Universal credit that the case manager that he was aware what they have been doing and would keep an eye on it and any time they done it he would automatically set up the direct payments without me having to reapply. Most recent time its happened though they have been assigned a new case manager which is unaware of what's been happening and doesn't seem as helpful as last. I haven't issued S8 as of yet, I thought it was best to keep them there as long as possible as I would be getting arrears payments and also rent payments but they have found a way around this.

You tried to farm them and they have found a way to farm you, or use you as a conduit to farm the system. Try to get them out and find tenants that want to pay you.

HampshireH

If you had to make your home available to a housing association they should have been paying you to lease the property. You shouldn't be affected by their rent not being collected - they should be and they should be taking action.

Likewise they should be managing he tenancy and returning the property back to you in the same condition it was given to them in.

What arrangement did you have with them? Seems strange you would be forced to give it to a HA then collect the rent yourself and be severely impacted

You collecting rent and being their landlord would suggest you are also responsible for taking them to court etc 

wmat983

HampshireH said:

If you had to make your home available to a housing association they should have been paying you to lease the property. You shouldn't be affected by their rent not being collected - they should be and they should be taking action.

Likewise they should be managing he tenancy and returning the property back to you in the same condition it was given to them in.

What arrangement did you have with them? Seems strange you would be forced to give it to a HA then collect the rent yourself and be severely impacted

You collecting rent and being their landlord would suggest you are also responsible for taking them to court etc 

Yes I was basically told I had the choice to manage it or have an agent manage it for me. Like I said in an earlier post prior to this I've found my own tenants and never missed any rent. The two years is up now just not sure what is the best thing to do.

Ideally would like to recoup some of the arrears but that might be difficult. What would you do in my situation with a large amount of arrears but also knowing they are not even living at the address and claiming money?

HampshireH

I would be getting in contact with the council/ housing association for advice. Serve notice though it's going to be lengthy.

If you are housing their tenants then you should have a point of contact. What type of tenancy do they have and is it with you as their landlord or is the HA mentioned?

It must be temporary accommodation so they should have been working to permanently house the tenants in that time.

Do the HA do the maintenance or do you? 

Is the HA your tenant and they sublet or are these people your tenants?

Do they do inspections or do you?

The whole set up sounds very odd.

If it was a two year agreement what does your contact with the HA say should happen at the end of he two years?

wmat983

HampshireH said:

I would be getting in contact with the council/ housing association for advice. Serve notice though it's going to be lengthy.

If you are housing their tenants then you should have a point of contact. What type of tenancy do they have and is it with you as their landlord or is the HA mentioned?

It must be temporary accommodation so they should have been working to permanently house the tenants in that time.

Do the HA do the maintenance or do you? 

Is the HA your tenant and they sublet or are these people your tenants?

Do they do inspections or do you?

The whole set up sounds very odd.

If it was a two year agreement what does your contact with the HA say should happen at the end of he two years?

Hi sorry the contact was with the council as they issued the grant for building works, in return I had to make the house available for 2 years, after this point I will no longer have to pay the grant money back. The 2 years is now up.

I had a tenancy drawn up through a friend at an estate agent its between me and the tenant nothing to do with HA so any maintenance, gas certs etc I have to do.

Its frustrating as now I'm almost certain they are not living there.

[Deleted User]

welshmatt983 said:

HampshireH said:

I would be getting in contact with the council/ housing association for advice. Serve notice though it's going to be lengthy.

If you are housing their tenants then you should have a point of contact. What type of tenancy do they have and is it with you as their landlord or is the HA mentioned?

It must be temporary accommodation so they should have been working to permanently house the tenants in that time.

Do the HA do the maintenance or do you? 

Is the HA your tenant and they sublet or are these people your tenants?

Do they do inspections or do you?

The whole set up sounds very odd.

If it was a two year agreement what does your contact with the HA say should happen at the end of he two years?

Hi sorry the contact was with the council as they issued the grant for building works, in return I had to make the house available for 2 years, after this point I will no longer have to pay the grant money back. The 2 years is now up.

I had a tenancy drawn up through a friend at an estate agent its between me and the tenant nothing to do with HA so any maintenance, gas certs etc I have to do.

Its frustrating as now I'm almost certain they are not living there.

What contract is with the council? The one for the building works only? How does the council/HA know you’ve made the property available for 2 years if neither has had any further involvement with you?