Electric heater comparison

danrv

Gerry1 said:

Just read the existing meters at the start and finish of the E7 times in your area.  Your region number is in the bottom left of the S-Number panel on your bill.

Thanks.
I can take readings at my region’s off peak start/stop times but there will be very little electricity use. I usually turn on the immersion heater mid morning as my off peak times are mostly during the day. 
It’s not yet on a timer so rather than manually turn the heater on/off during the night, I could work out the cost for an hour’s use.
2.76kw on for 1 hour at 8.937p a unit (cheapest off peak rate).

This would be the only heavy consumption during 11pm - 7am if I use the convector heaters.
Also the hallway/stairwell/landing is cold at the moment as I’ve used all the heaters in individual rooms. Either I get another £20 heater or fit a 2760w or 3300w storage heater here. Quite a large area to heat.
Can’t do complete calculations as I’m not yet sure what’s best for the centre hallway.
If a large capacity storage heater, then this along with the immersion would be the only appliances using off peak power.

matelodave

A full charge on a 3kw storage heater could be around 3kw x 7hours = 21kwh assuming that it was cold at the beginning of the charging period. It would then have approx 17 hours to dissipate that 21kwh = approx 1.235 kw per hour depending on how the dampers were set.

Bear in mind though that it could still be radiating heat during the charging period so ideally the damper should be closed right down during the charge period to achieve it's maximum storage capacity. Although they have a charge control, its only a crude thermostat to limit the temperature of the bricks which reduces the amount of stored heat.

High retention storage heaters (Dimplex Quantum etc) are designed to retain as much heat as possible and use a fan & room thermostat to regulate the time and amount that gets dissipated and so are a bit more controllable. However they are frequently undersized and use a boost heater if they haven't stored enough heat during the charging period.which IMO somewhat defeats the object.

danrv

matelodave said:

A full charge on a 3kw storage heater could be around 3kw x 7hours = 21kwh assuming that it was cold at the beginning of the charging period. It would then have approx 17 hours to dissipate that 21kwh = approx 1.235 kw per hour depending on how the dampers were set.

Thanks for doing the sums. Previously, this area was getting some heat through a grill from the warm air heater. Certainly wasn’t getting up to a comfortable 21c but now it’s off, it’s cold. 
I think a Quantum under the stairs to fill the hall and upper level/landing would do.
Needs a steady trickle of heat more so than the other rooms.
Swapping the E10 for E7 would mean using the direct heaters on expensive day rate but that’s what I’m doing at the moment. 
Would just be a cheaper. 

matelodave

danrv said:

matelodave said:

A full charge on a 3kw storage heater could be around 3kw x 7hours = 21kwh assuming that it was cold at the beginning of the charging period. It would then have approx 17 hours to dissipate that 21kwh = approx 1.235 kw per hour depending on how the dampers were set.

Thanks for doing the sums. Previously, this area was getting some heat through a grill from the warm air heater. Certainly wasn’t getting up to a comfortable 21c but now it’s off, it’s cold. 
I think a Quantum under the stairs to fill the hall and upper level/landing would do.
Needs a steady trickle of heat more so than the other rooms.
Swapping the E10 for E7 would mean using the direct heaters on expensive day rate but that’s what I’m doing at the moment. 
Would just be a cheaper. 

If you want a steady trickle of heat then that's not how a Quantum works - they are designed to hold the heat for as long as possible and then only deliver it when required under control of the timer & thermostat. You pay a lot of extra money for that facility. 

IMO you'd be better off getting a basic storage heater, keeping the damper shut and saving yourself several hundred pounds

matelodave

danrv said:

matelodave said:

A full charge on a 3kw storage heater could be around 3kw x 7hours = 21kwh assuming that it was cold at the beginning of the charging period. It would then have approx 17 hours to dissipate that 21kwh = approx 1.235 kw per hour depending on how the dampers were set.

Thanks for doing the sums. Previously, this area was getting some heat through a grill from the warm air heater. Certainly wasn’t getting up to a comfortable 21c but now it’s off, it’s cold. 
I think a Quantum under the stairs to fill the hall and upper level/landing would do.
Needs a steady trickle of heat more so than the other rooms.
Swapping the E10 for E7 would mean using the direct heaters on expensive day rate but that’s what I’m doing at the moment. 
Would just be a cheaper. 

If you want a steady trickle of heat then that's not how a Quantum works - they are designed to hold the heat for as long as possible and then only deliver it when required under control of the timer & thermostat. You pay a lot of extra money for that facility. 

IMO you'd be better off getting a basic storage heater, keeping the damper shut and saving yourself several hundred pounds

Gerry1

matelodave said:

IMO you'd be better off getting a basic storage heater, keeping the damper shut and saving yourself several hundred pounds

Are they still available (apart from second hand)?  I understood that new ones had to be high heat retention.  I agree that the Quantum seems to have lots of attractive bells and whistles (e.g. programming capabilities), with a price tag to match.  Might be worthwhile if the OP intends to stay there for a long time, and of course they could be relocated if the OP finds another non-gas property.

danrv

Gerry1 said:

matelodave said:

IMO you'd be better off getting a basic storage heater, keeping the damper shut and saving yourself several hundred pounds

Are they still available (apart from second hand)?  I understood that new ones had to be high heat retention.  I agree that the Quantum seems to have lots of attractive bells and whistles (e.g. programming capabilities), with a price tag to match.  Might be worthwhile if the OP intends to stay there for a long time, and of course they could be relocated if the OP finds another non-gas property.

That’s the other consideration - fitting heating to suit myself or to also add value to the property. I’d like to think that any heating fitted would add value. Certainly not the case at the moment with five £20 convectors.
If the sums work out that the heaters/storage heater are cheaper to run than the warm air heating, then I may fit some Lot 20 electric radiators. These convectors I have can be wall mounted though and run from a 13amp plug.
There’s old stock Creda TSR storage heaters available which would save a bit. Sometimes, any heat leakage can be beneficial but other times not ie. warm days, chilly nights.

Cardew

danrv said:

Gerry1 said:

matelodave said:

IMO you'd be better off getting a basic storage heater, keeping the damper shut and saving yourself several hundred pounds

Are they still available (apart from second hand)?  I understood that new ones had to be high heat retention.  I agree that the Quantum seems to have lots of attractive bells and whistles (e.g. programming capabilities), with a price tag to match.  Might be worthwhile if the OP intends to stay there for a long time, and of course they could be relocated if the OP finds another non-gas property.

That’s the other consideration - fitting heating to suit myself or to also add value to the property. I’d like to think that any heating fitted would add value. Certainly not the case at the moment with five £20 convectors.

I think some people completely ignore the capital cost of installing storage heaters and concentrate purely on running costs.

In a small property what would you estimate the difference in annual running costs of storage heating/hot water and your five £20 fan heaters?(or cheap panel heaters)

At least with the latter arrangement you can be sure your property is warm at the times you need heat.

NOTE. I am talking installing storage heating not about a CH system that will add value to your property; or indeed using existing storage heating.

danrv

Cardew said:

In a small property what would you estimate the difference in annual running costs of storage heating/hot water and your five £20 fan heaters?(or cheap panel heaters)

At least with the latter arrangement you can be sure your property is warm at the times you need heat.

Thanks. Not sure about annual running costs but am keeping track of usage.
Previously, at this time of year, electricity bills worked out at £160 pm. This was charging up a 10kw storage heater and turning on an immersion for about and hour.

So far it’s around £90 pm. This is using selective direct heating although I need to factor in that there’s no heating in the centre hallway. A 3kw storage space heater would get the bills up but hopefully under what the Unidare was costing. 
A switch to cheaper E7 will help too. Means that the convectors will use peak rate electricity unless I can get my favourable E10 off peak hours transferred to E7.

matelodave

danrv said:

Cardew said:

In a small property what would you estimate the difference in annual running costs of storage heating/hot water and your five £20 fan heaters?(or cheap panel heaters)

At least with the latter arrangement you can be sure your property is warm at the times you need heat.

Thanks. Not sure about annual running costs but am keeping track of usage.
Previously, at this time of year, electricity bills worked out at £160 pm. This was charging up a 10kw storage heater and turning on an immersion for about and hour.

So far it’s around £90 pm. This is using selective direct heating although I need to factor in that there’s no heating in the centre hallway. A 3kw storage space heater would get the bills up but hopefully under what the Unidare was costing. 
A switch to cheaper E7 will help too. Means that the convectors will use peak rate electricity unless I can get my favourable E10 off peak hours transferred to E7.

If you went for E7 then there's no doubt that your timings would be reset and you would only get off peak energy between midnight and 7am so you be using your convectors on peak rate energy - unless you are a night owl and only heat the place overnight.