Missing deeds from before house was built??

doni

In the process of selling our house which was built in the 80s. The wording of the query is as follows:

Please confirm that indemnity insurance will be provided in respect of the missing deeds referred to in the title dated 7 February 1916.

Is it possible to have some sort of deed relating to our house well before it was built? The land? Or is this a mistake?

greatcrested

Yes.Land has deeds. Properties don't. (well, that's an oversimplification but....)

But I don't think missing deeds from pre-1916 should be a big deal.

If the buyer or their lender is really concerned, pay £100 or so for indemnity insurance, but I'd initially simply respond 'No' and see if that is accepted.

doni

greatcrested said:

Yes.Land has deeds. Properties don't. (well, that's an oversimplification but....)

But I don't think missing deeds from pre-1916 should be a big deal.

If the buyer or their lender is really concerned, pay £100 or so for indemnity insurance, but I'd initially simply respond 'No' and see if that is accepted.

Thanks, that's really useful to know.

My next question is....I purchased the house 3 years ago and I don't recall this being picked up then. Should it have been and if so can I go back to the solicitor and put it to them that it should have been identified when I bought. I'm using the same firm for selling as I did for buying.

davidmcn

doni said:

greatcrested said:

Yes.Land has deeds. Properties don't. (well, that's an oversimplification but....)

But I don't think missing deeds from pre-1916 should be a big deal.

If the buyer or their lender is really concerned, pay £100 or so for indemnity insurance, but I'd initially simply respond 'No' and see if that is accepted.

My next question is....I purchased the house 3 years ago and I don't recall this being picked up then. Should it have been and if so can I go back to the solicitor and put it to them that it should have been identified when I bought. I'm using the same firm for selling as I did for buying.

If you like, though it isn't really likely to be a big deal either way. Have you actually discussed it with your solicitor at all? It may be a non-point. It's not compulsory to comply with everything the buyers ask for.

doni

davidmcn said:

doni said:

greatcrested said:

Yes.Land has deeds. Properties don't. (well, that's an oversimplification but....)

But I don't think missing deeds from pre-1916 should be a big deal.

If the buyer or their lender is really concerned, pay £100 or so for indemnity insurance, but I'd initially simply respond 'No' and see if that is accepted.

My next question is....I purchased the house 3 years ago and I don't recall this being picked up then. Should it have been and if so can I go back to the solicitor and put it to them that it should have been identified when I bought. I'm using the same firm for selling as I did for buying.

If you like, though it isn't really likely to be a big deal either way. Have you actually discussed it with your solicitor at all? It may be a non-point. It's not compulsory to comply with everything the buyers ask for.

No I haven't discussed with my solicitor yet. Pretty unobtainable at the best of times so I wanted to try and understand it as best I could before responding. Thanks for your help

Tiglet2

While you're waiting to speak to your solicitor, why not have a dig in your old paperwork and see if an indemnity policy was arranged by the previous owners and passed to you on completion.  If you do have a missing deeds indemnity policy, forward a copy to your solicitor - they might just need to top up the policy to new sale price.

doni

For anyone experiencing similar - my solicitor advised me to respond no we won't be taking out an insurance policy as the risk is so low. Buyer's are happy with the response.

Mickey666

I may be misunderstanding all this, but if the house was purchased three years ago then it should be registered at LR, in which case how can the deeds be lost? 

OK, the original paper deeds might be lost but if the property is already registered at LR then they are redundant anyway, so why would anyone want or need an indemnity policy against legally meaningless lost documents?

davidmcn

Mickey666 said:

I may be misunderstanding all this, but if the house was purchased three years ago then it should be registered at LR, in which case how can the deeds be lost? 

OK, the original paper deeds might be lost but if the property is already registered at LR then they are redundant anyway, so why would anyone want or need an indemnity policy against legally meaningless lost documents?

Because the deeds used for registration may have referred to other deeds which couldn't be located.

Mickey666

Fair enough, so how does LR handle such a thing for a first registration?   Would it still give title absolute on first registration and if wouldn't this make the lost deeds legally meaningless on the basis that title absolute cannot be challenged? 
Or would LR only grant possessory title on first registration on the basis that the lost deeds might included something that might allow the title to be challenged?

davidmcn

Mickey666 said:

Fair enough, so how does LR handle such a thing for a first registration?   Would it still give title absolute on first registration and if wouldn't this make the lost deeds legally meaningless on the basis that title absolute cannot be challenged? 
Or would LR only grant possessory title on first registration on the basis that the lost deeds might included something that might allow the title to be challenged?

We're probably talking about something which doesn't fundamentally affect the title - say, a reference to an easement to a third party, but without the other deed nobody can see the plan showing the route or any conditions attached.