Serving Section 21 - missing Gas Safety Certificate

theartfullodger

Malcyb said:

Hi,

I wonder if anyone here has sufficient legal knowledge to help with our problem? Brief background first, we need to sell a property which we are currently letting out through a letting agent.

Great, so sell it with tenants in it. No problem. I bought one such in 2006.

Re ####The tenants have been there since 2015 and had been on a rolling month-by-month tenancy.  We served the tenants 6 months notice, which expired last month. The tenants have refused to leave as they want to get on the council list. ....####

I assume you mean an s21 notice.  An s21 notice (or s8 notice) does not end a tenancy nor compel a tenant to leave.  So they are not "refusing to leave", they are merely exercising their legal rights from the sainted Margaret's 1988 Housing Act.   They don;t have to leave!  Their rights, just have you have an absolute legal right to serve an s21 if you want to evict.

Done ANY landlord/tenant legal training??

greatcrested

Malcyb said:

Just discovered there is a search facility on the gassaferegister website to order a replacement certificate (dating back to 2009)... however entering our postcode nothing comes up

I suspect you are searching the installation certificates, not the annual insection certificates.

The FAQs says:

Can you provide me with my annual safety check certificate or the Landlord's Gas Safety Record for my property?

Unfortunately, we do not hold copies of these certificates and there is no central database where they are stored. To obtain a copy you will need to contact the business that completed the check, or where applicable ask your landlord. The certificates that we hold are Building Regulations Compliance Certificates for new installations (for example boilers) that were installed after 1st April 2009. These are the certificates that are required when you sell your property.

Bodkin64

greatcrested said:

Malcyb said:

Just discovered there is a search facility on the gassaferegister website to order a replacement certificate (dating back to 2009)... however entering our postcode nothing comes up

I suspect you are searching the installation certificates, not the annual insection certificates.

The FAQs says:

Can you provide me with my annual safety check certificate or the Landlord's Gas Safety Record for my property?

Unfortunately, we do not hold copies of these certificates and there is no central database where they are stored. To obtain a copy you will need to contact the business that completed the check, or where applicable ask your landlord. The certificates that we hold are Building Regulations Compliance Certificates for new installations (for example boilers) that were installed after 1st April 2009. These are the certificates that are required when you sell your property.

Ok thanks, I missed that. In that case there’s no way we’re getting the certificate. So back to my previous question to you about the wisdom of pressing ahead with the S21 without this, on the assumption the tenant won’t contest it....? TBH it seems we don’t have any other option.

greatcrested

From what you've said, the tenants are not going to contest the possession request, so why not proceed and hope the judge does not investigate.

The alternative is to.... well, I don't know.

No point re-serving the S21 as the same will apply.

Aand you say none of the S8 grounds apply.

And as they want re-housing they won't agree a mutual surreder.

A_Lert

Malcyb said:

would their “failure” to contest the S21 be considered as making themselves intentionally homeless?

This is not your problem.

Bodkin64

A_Lert said:

Malcyb said:

would their “failure” to contest the S21 be considered as making themselves intentionally homeless?

This is not your problem.

It would be if it meant that that this was a reason for the tenant to contest the S21, so subjecting it to closer scrutiny, and likely rejection, by the court. 

greatcrested

I'm not familiar with council housing application processes.

Do councils expect all tenants to automatically contest every S21? I find that unlikely, but really don't know.

I mean, if a S21 is served correctly, with all the conditions met, does the council still expect a tenant to waste the court's time contesting it? And what grounds are the tenant supposed to use in their contest if there are no valid grounds? I mean, it makes no sense.

And if it is not an automatic requirement for the tenant to contest the S21, then assuming the court awarded the landlord the possession order, how would the council know whether a valid ground to object could have been presented to the court? Unless the council duplicates the court's work by checking all 88 questions in the S21 validity checker themselves in order to verify the court's decision......

jemima82

Are your tenants only wanting a council house because you want them out? If they’ve been good tenants and paying the rent in full for five years, is it possible that they’d be happy renting elsewhere?

If so, you could try to come to an agreement for them to leave in exchange for return of deposit (if applicable) plus next deposit & first month’s rent.

Bodkin64

greatcrested said:

I'm not familiar with council housing application processes.

Do councils expect all tenants to automatically contest every S21? I find that unlikely, but really don't know.

I mean, if a S21 is served correctly, with all the conditions met, does the council still expect a tenant to waste the court's time contesting it? And what grounds are the tenant supposed to use in their contest if there are no valid grounds? I mean, it makes no sense.

And if it is not an automatic requirement for the tenant to contest the S21, then assuming the court awarded the landlord the possession order, how would the council know whether a valid ground to object could have been presented to the court? Unless the council duplicates the court's work by checking all 88 questions in the S21 validity checker themselves in order to verify the court's decision......

The process does seem to be a bizarre waste of everyone’s time if a lot of tenants really are just using it to get a council house, there has to be a better way that doesn’t simply line solicitors pockets. Anyway thanks for your comments, I feel a bit better educated to go into discussion with our solicitor now.

Bodkin64

jemima82 said:

Are your tenants only wanting a council house because you want them out? If they’ve been good tenants and paying the rent in full for five years, is it possible that they’d be happy renting elsewhere?

If so, you could try to come to an agreement for them to leave in exchange for return of deposit (if applicable) plus next deposit & first month’s rent.

I’ve very little experience of renting, however it must be destabilising not knowing how long you’re going to be in one place. I think we’ve been (relatively) good landlords and made life fairly straightforward for them for 5 years, that might not be the case with their next private rental. Perhaps a last resort might be to reach some kind of agreement like that if all else fails.