Leasehold flat, who is responsible for the upkeep of the car park inc. numbers?

doninphi

Good morning,
I have a flat for sale, and it has come to light from the deeds that my space is incorrectly numbered. The car park reads 16, 15, 14, 13  and I've always just parked in 13 and thought nothing of it.  When selling it appears the deeds show No.16 is mine not 13. It shouljd read 13, 14, 15, 16.  The buyer's solicitor and mine are not happy and want either the deeds changing (£600 +VAT) which will cause issues with other flat deeds so is not possible.  Or the car park re-numbering, which needs the other three flat owners to agree to. (£400 +VAT for a local line marking company)

My Landlord is saying it is not his responsibility as I did not notice the issue when I bought it, I'm not from the area so had no idea of the issue until I moved in when it was too late, the other owners must be the same as no other sellers/buyers have had issue! Yet I've got stuck between a rock and a hard place.  I feel locked in that I cannot sell unless I pay to re-number, but cannot until others agree, and ideally  contribute to the cost if the landlord will not pay.

But... who is responsible for the upkeep and correct numbering of the car park? Me or the landlord? I have checked the deeds and in one section it says:
------------------------------
Schedule 6
The Management Services:
1. Provision replacement renewal repair maintenance and cleaning (as the case may be) of: 
.....
1.10 the car park (including lighting if any) but excluding in each case any such which are provided as part of the landlord servecs
-----------------------------

I cannot then see anything in the landlord services section mentioning the car park.

The Solicitor says "The landlord/management company do have a covenant that they must upkeep the estate itself.    In terms of your situation, it doesn't necessarily mean with regards to the numbering. "

Thoughts? Guidance? 
Kind regards
Phil

davidmcn

doninphi said:

The buyer's solicitor and mine are not happy and want either the deeds changing (£600 +VAT) which will cause issues with other flat deeds so is not possible.  Or the car park re-numbering, which needs the other three flat owners to agree to. (£400 +VAT for a local line marking company)

Or (for the money-saving option) you could all just park in the spaces which correspond with your titles?

greatcrested

I assume you live in flat 13, so are parking in space 13?

But the space identified on your Title Plan as yours is marked on the ground as 16?

Who is using the space marked 16 (which is actually yours)?

Have a friendly chat and explain. If they agree, get some paint and reverse the markings on the two spaces.

Then start parking in the space identified in your Title Plan (which you've now painted as 13) while your neighbour starts parking where you used to which is now painted 16.

This is a quick, cheap, easy solution though there are 2 potetialissues:

1) owner of 16 refuses

2) freeholder complains about the new paintwork.

Assuming Schedule 6 refers to your obligations under the lease (these seem unusual terms for a leaseholder), AND assuming there is nothing under the landlord's obligations relating to the car park, it would seem responsibility for "repair maintenance....of the car park" are yours.

So go buy some paint and "repair & maintain"!

Slithery

Are you sure that this hasn't been done on purpose for security? It's quite common for parking space numbers to not match flat numbers as that way prospective burglars don't know who's in and who's out.

NameUnavailable

If your space is No16 then that's the space that gets sold with the flat. As mentioned above, the parking space number doesn't always match the flat number. So you start parking in YOUR space and if the neighbour moans about it refer them to their lease.

Freecall

NameUnavailable said:

If your space is No16 then that's the space that gets sold with the flat. As mentioned above, the parking space number doesn't always match the flat number. So you start parking in YOUR space and if the neighbour moans about it refer them to their lease.

Probably a practical way forward.  Interesting to see how it turns out.


Dear Leaseholder of Flat 13
My name is Reasonable Chap and my wife and I are the leaseholders of Flat 16.  I notice that you have been parking your car in the parking place demised to our flat.  We checked our lease just in case we had ourselves been parking in the wrong place for the past 25 years but this clearly shows the correct place to be the one which you have started to use.  I imagine that parking there was simply an oversight on your part.  I attach a copy of my lease plan for clarity.
Wishing you a merry Christmas etc...


Could be fun.
  

 

princeofpounds

Hi OP.

You have cut out a lot of context with regards to the lease agreement, but it would be normal for the freeholder to be responsible for care of the car parking spaces (with costs charged back in the service charge of course) and that is what your lease appears to specify based on the short extract you have posted. However, enforcing this would be awkward - a trip to tribunal feels rather disproportionate, although perhaps a lawyer's letter threatening it would be enough to get some movement.

As for what you are selling - the space you own is the one indicated in the deeds. It doesn't actually matter what number is written on it, assuming a) that the correct space is easily identifiable from physical features on the title plan and b) you have full leasehold ownership of the space, and parking is not provided as a license/service, which it sometimes is. From what you describe, that seems to be the case.

If I were you, I would go and speak to the owner of No. 16. Thankfully, based on what you have described, it sounds like it would only require a straight swap between the two of you, rather than moving everyone. Explain the situation, and point out that whilst it seems very trivial, it has become legally important - if they ever want to sell, they may face the same issue. If they are happy (any reason they would care?), then swap the use of spaces. Then you just need to sort out the numbers. Frankly, you may as well just get on and pay this, rather than forcing the freeholder to do it. What you lose in money, you gain in time and a successful sale.

Uptown_Boy

Would swapping spaces help in terms of distance between space and flat? Or do you all share a common main entrance door anyway? (Just in case that angle also helps to "sell" this proposal to Flat #16).

NameUnavailable

Freecall said:

NameUnavailable said:

If your space is No16 then that's the space that gets sold with the flat. As mentioned above, the parking space number doesn't always match the flat number. So you start parking in YOUR space and if the neighbour moans about it refer them to their lease.

Probably a practical way forward.  Interesting to see how it turns out.


Dear Leaseholder of Flat 13
My name is Reasonable Chap and my wife and I are the leaseholders of Flat 16.  I notice that you have been parking your car in the parking place demised to our flat.  We checked our lease just in case we had ourselves been parking in the wrong place for the past 25 years but this clearly shows the correct place to be the one which you have started to use.  I imagine that parking there was simply an oversight on your part.  I attach a copy of my lease plan for clarity.
Wishing you a merry Christmas etc...


Could be fun.
  

 

Could be fun if they refused and then decided they wanted to sell........

Norman_Castle

doninphi said:

 The car park reads 16, 15, 14, 13  and I've always just parked in 13 and thought nothing of it.  When selling it appears the deeds show No.16 is mine not 13. It shouljd read 13, 14, 15, 16. 

Do the numbers relate to flat numbers or are they simply numbered parking spaces? Do the deeds show a number on the allocated parking space or state by number which space you should use? Ask number 16 what their deeds show.

"Or the car park re-numbering, which needs the other three flat owners to agree to. (£400 +VAT for a local line marking company)"

Other one owner, numbers 14 and 15 are irrelevant to you.

doninphi

Thanks for all the above replies
1. The spaces numbers relate to the flats.

2. The solicitor has said they need to match to sell. As the buyer brought it up as an issue.

3. The landlord is not happy with me doing it. I have all the gear to do it too. But he wants it to be done officially and therefore is not currently happy with the idea of me melting the paint and spraying on new numbers.

4. Correct. It is only me 13. And 16. Who need to swap. But the landlord will not be happy with that is the feeling I get.

5. I cannot just accept parking in my number 13 as suggested as that's the exact issue the solicitors are having. 13 doesn't match the deeds. It is not for security as the rest of the car park is labelled.

The other owners have been emailed twice by the landlord. No responses yet.