Services in lieu of rent?

Skyeyez

Hello,

Please could somebody help me make sense of whether any of these would count as services in lieu of rent? We have been living in a cottage owned by my partner’s Aunt (she inherited decades ago but it was left vacant until we moved in last year). We don’t have a written contract and don’t pay rent to her. 

We do however;
- Pay the buildings AND contents insurance.
- Maintain the property including all repairs and improvements. 

- Installed electric heaters as the cottage had no heating when we moved in.
- Covered the costs of recent water damage from a boiler issue that flooded an internal wall.
- Laid a gravel drive where it was previously just mud.
- Cleared the overgrown garden of brambles, ivy and self seeded trees.
- Replaced some rotten window frames and ledges.
- Removed a broken old greenhouse attached to the back door of the cottage.
- Are expected to pay for an electrical safety check and for the correction of any issues that arise (there will be many as the electrician warned us things aren’t looking good).
- Sanded and painted all external window frames and doors.
- Covered the cost of plumber to fix issues with water pressure, leaks and faulty toilets.
- Check and maintain all fire/smoke alarms. 

That’s just a few of the tasks we’ve carried out this year, as the Aunt has said we should be treating it as our own home and responsible for all maintenance, repairs etc. But she also says we are just guests there and don’t have sole occupancy (they come and go as they please which we find very intrusive). 

My partner’s aunt refuses to draw up a tenancy agreement and denies we are tenants, only guests. She says as we aren’t paying monetary rent we aren’t tenants and they aren’t landlords. 

We pay the council tax, both work locally and our daughter attends the local school. This has been our only place of residence for 18 months with a view to buying it from them in bits (which we are reconsidering!).

I’ve asked a couple of questions on this situation already here and found yo answers to be really helpful. Thanks in advance.

Skyeyez

My apologies for the poorly written post! Rather rushed. I hope it makes sense...

davidmcn

Skyeyez said:

I’ve asked a couple of questions on this situation already here and found yo answers to be really helpful. Thanks in advance.

In which case it would be helpful to refer to the previous thread (or just have commented on it again) as I think the question has already been answered:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6187080/living-status#latest

thegentleway

I doubt it. What’s the issue?

theartfullodger

Rent does not have to be money.  Can be "money's worth" like some of what you described.  Still need to declare to HMRC, but should make it an AST

lika_86

I thought this was going to be about something else entirely.

Slithery

Rent doesn't have to be actual money, it just needs to be 'payment in kind' (which you have certainly done going by your OP). Why on earth have you been paying to update your landlords property for them? That's all their responsibility.

Just because there is nothing written down doesn't mean you don't have a legally binding tenancy agreement. You do have one, your LL just hasn't written down any additional terms restricting your rights so it's all in your favour. If your LL is entering the property without your permission then change the locks ASAP, they're not allowed to do that and it's your house.

Did you actually have a question that you wanted answering? I couldn't find one in your post.

Oops, just seen it in the first sentence. Yes. you definitely have a legal tenancy so your LL should have followed all of the relevant laws...

Please read the following to learn about all of the things your LL was/is legally required to do...

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5180214/tenancies-in-eng-wales-guides-for-landlords-and-tenants/p1

mooneysaver

The link you need is here: 
https://www.gov.uk/report-an-unregistered-trader-or-business

Its normally recommended you discuss with your partner before reporting their close family member for tax evasion and breaking the law with regards to their landlord responsibilities. You might want to wait until after Christmas. 

AdrianC

Skyeyez said:

Please could somebody help me make sense of whether any of these would count as services in lieu of rent? We have been living in a cottage owned by my partner’s Aunt (she inherited decades ago but it was left vacant until we moved in last year). We don’t have a written contract and don’t pay rent to her. 

We do however;
- Pay the buildings AND contents insurance.
- Maintain the property including all repairs and improvements. 

- Installed electric heaters as the cottage had no heating when we moved in.
- Covered the costs of recent water damage from a boiler issue that flooded an internal wall.
- Laid a gravel drive where it was previously just mud.
- Cleared the overgrown garden of brambles, ivy and self seeded trees.
- Replaced some rotten window frames and ledges.
- Removed a broken old greenhouse attached to the back door of the cottage.
- Are expected to pay for an electrical safety check and for the correction of any issues that arise (there will be many as the electrician warned us things aren’t looking good).
- Sanded and painted all external window frames and doors.
- Covered the cost of plumber to fix issues with water pressure, leaks and faulty toilets.
- Check and maintain all fire/smoke alarms. 

That’s just a few of the tasks we’ve carried out this year, as the Aunt has said we should be treating it as our own home and responsible for all maintenance, repairs etc.

Sounds like paying a full market rent would be cheaper.

But she also says we are just guests there and don’t have sole occupancy (they come and go as they please which we find very intrusive).

This is a fairly key part of it...

Why are they coming and going? Just because they can, or is there some part of the property/land that they require access to for some purpose unrelated to your occupation of the property?

My partner’s aunt refuses to draw up a tenancy agreement and denies we are tenants, only guests. She says as we aren’t paying monetary rent we aren’t tenants and they aren’t landlords.

She's on a thin legal line - and obviously trying to nudge it away from a tenancy towards an informal licence...
https://england.shelter.org.uk/legal/security_of_tenure/basic_principles_security_of_tenure/what_is_a_tenancy
https://england.shelter.org.uk/legal/security_of_tenure/basic_principles_security_of_tenure/what_is_a_licence

I think that everything you've described in this thread falls into "tenancy" with a landlord who's taking the mickey - but it'll depend on the purpose of their visits.
Reading back your other thread linked above, and the £500/mo "saving scheme", she is DEFINITELY taking the mick. That's either rent... or it's your money that you can have back any time and she's operating some kind of unlicenced banking activity...

We pay the council tax

Which you would have to do as tenants, too, of course. But not as houseguests.

caprikid1

" Are expected to pay for an electrical safety check and for the correction of any issues that arise (there will be many as the electrician warned us things aren’t looking good)."
I am not a legal expert here but I think in asking you to organise a electrical safety certificate they are acting as if this is a tenancy, I would not do that if I had guests to stay.
If they don't want to give you a tenancy they are not going to sell it to you and are stringing you along, as has already been said how much rent would have been paid and how much can you calculate the work completed would have cost.
I would say unless there are some firm commitment to sell the property to you then calculate what the rent would be and do that amount of work each month and send them an itemized list of jobs done that equal landlord's responsibility.
Given they come and do it feels more like you are lodgers though as you don't have sole occupancy ?

AdrianC

caprikid1 said:

Given they come and do it feels more like you are lodgers though as you don't have sole occupancy ?

Definitely not, because the landlord doesn't live there.