Economy 7 timer switch advice

hilaryfur

Gerry1 said:

@hilaryfur The radio teleswitch is now a legacy product and I doubt very much that any more are being manufactured or installed.

However, I'm baffled by the report that the BG chappie installed a non E7 meter and told you to turn on the storage heaters overnight.  That's fine as far as it goes, you'll have heating but by definition if it's really a non E7 meter then it won't be at cheap rate.  The meter would have only one rate !

In reality, I suspect that it IS an E7 meter, but one with only 4 terminals, i.e. it doesn't have the extra output terminal on the extreme right that's only live at cheap rate times.  (In your photo it's connected to the wire which has three 'L' rings on it.)  He will probably have connected that circuit to the 24h output (terminal 4).  If so, it will bill all overnight usage at the cheap rate, but the storage heater circuit will be live 24 hours.  

You are absolutely right, I am ignorant, it IS an E7 meter as it shows 2 rates, and yes it only has 4 terminals. 


Thank you for the advice about photographing the meter daily, also checking that the day and night readings haven't been swapped over. And thx a million for advising that I don't have to get up early to turn it off - I really struggle with losing morning sleep!

matelodave

That looks like a simple multirate meter as no extra connections no off peak wiring just a little box with a timer in it to record if the units used were peak or off peak  , so you need to check that it switches from high rate to low rate around midnight and back again at 0700 or thereabouts.

That at least gives you a peak and off peak supply, however it does look like he's just connected the two boards together so the off peak supply wont get switched on & off automatically. You'll need to do it manually to avoid the heaters cooking away all day on peak rates until they get someone who knows what they are doing.

It needs a separate contactor and control signal from the meter (assuming that its got the capability) to do that. It can also be done with a external timer and contactor.

It doesn't really give a lot of confidence in the quality of whoever they are sending if he couldn't work it out.

Gerry1

The little '1' probably means that it's charging at Rate 1 (daytime) and it will display a little '2' when the night rate kicks in, along with a different meter reading.  If you press the blue Display Cycle button you can see both readings, perhaps with a Total reading as well.  The steady state one will be the rate that is currently in use.

Beware if you seem to be getting nine hours tr cheap rate.  You wont be, the cheap rate is likely to be 10:30pm - 12:30am and 2:30am - 7:30am or similar.  That would be a nuisance when switching on the NSHs and immersion heater manually.

Make sure the bill doesn't assume that the Rate 1 register started of at 00000 rather than 00240 or whatever, ditto for Rate 2 (read it now before the NSHs are switched on).

MWT

hilaryfur said:

Correct, BG do not have a smart meter that works with E7, and their policy is to only have smart meters. Hello?

Not exactly right, BG certainly have meters that work with E7, multi-rate capability is standard on smart meters in general..

... but... what they may have a shortage of is 5-port meters that can automatically switch a circuit for low rate usage like NSH...

They can still equip a 4-port meter with an external relay though so it shouldn't be a show-stopper.

Ectophile

MWT said:

hilaryfur said:

Correct, BG do not have a smart meter that works with E7, and their policy is to only have smart meters. Hello?

Not exactly right, BG certainly have meters that work with E7, multi-rate capability is standard on smart meters in general..

... but... what they may have a shortage of is 5-port meters that can automatically switch a circuit for low rate usage like NSH...

They can still equip a 4-port meter with an external relay though so it shouldn't be a show-stopper.

What switches the relay if you don't have a 5 port meter?

Chino

hilaryfur said:

It's a pain as I'll have to get up after 12:30 am to turn it on, and again before 7:00 to turn them off

Maybe trying using a suitably-rated time switch to switch your storage heaters on and off? For example, this one's rated up to 3kW (seems that storage heaters are typically rated around 1.5 kW but you'd want to check yours):
https://www.wilko.com/en-uk/wilko-compact-electronic-timer/p/0155321

(this assumes that your heaters aren't permanently wired in)

Gerry1

MWT said:

hilaryfur said:

Correct, BG do not have a smart meter that works with E7, and their policy is to only have smart meters. Hello?

Not exactly right, BG certainly have meters that work with E7, multi-rate capability is standard on smart meters in general..

... but... what they may have a shortage of is 5-port meters that can automatically switch a circuit for low rate usage like NSH...

They can still equip a 4-port meter with an external relay though so it shouldn't be a show-stopper.

No need for the OP to be bamboozled into having a smart meter. The original meter is still available, and in any case BG should have a meter mountain of 5-terminal E7 meters that have been replaced by smart meters.

MWT

Gerry1 said:

... and in any case BG should have a meter mountain of 5-terminal E7 meters that have been replaced by smart meters.

As far as I know any non-smart meters that are removed are not being refurbished any more they just get recycled...

MWT

Ectophile said:

What switches the relay if you don't have a 5 port meter?

The 4-port meters can still generate a switch pulse, they just don't have the relay built in...

tim_p

Chino said:

hilaryfur said:

It's a pain as I'll have to get up after 12:30 am to turn it on, and again before 7:00 to turn them off

Maybe trying using a suitably-rated time switch to switch your storage heaters on and off? For example, this one's rated up to 3kW (seems that storage heaters are typically rated around 1.5 kW but you'd want to check yours):
https://www.wilko.com/en-uk/wilko-compact-electronic-timer/p/0155321

(this assumes that your heaters aren't permanently wired in)

Be care here OP. I’m not aware of any storage heaters that are rated this low, most are up in the 7kW range and will quickly kill a lower rated switch. Such heaters will be permanently wired as they can’t work with a standard 13A plug in a ring main (fully aware that some have additional peak rate heaters and that side of things can be run off a plug)