New Driveway Worries

guitarbloke

Jeepers_Creepers said:

guitarbloke said:

Jeepers_Creepers said:

I think a concern, Victor, is that the initial application of the kiln sand should be followed by a 'whacking' in order for it to settle tightly down into the gaps - at least according to guidelines I found online.

If they leave the sanding to GB, he won't be able to do that.

That cementing is atrocious. Are they actually thinking they can sort this? How? If they don't find a way, then they certainly don't deserve full payment anyway - it is simply not a good enough job.

The rest is sort of 'ok' - it'll be fine and look good - but the uneven gaps, misplaced bricks, broken ends - it's all "I really don't give a damn. I have no pride in my work. I'm doing this for a wage, that's all..."

Thanks Jeepers,

The guy/owner of the company said he'll be coming in the morning to 'even out the concrete' ...whatever that means.  We shall see!

In all fairness, I'm assuming it's not the easiest of jobs because of those wire fences, but as the experts, I figured that would be something for them to figure out!  He's accepted that the concrete does indeed look bad.

He believes that the broken brick may have happened when he went over it with the whacker yesterday, apparently that sometimes happens, but he assures me he'll sort it out.

Strangely (or not!), his attitude softened tremendously once I transferred the £3k to him earlier!!

I do have a niggling worry that if for any reason I don't make the full payment, (or if I hold some back because the kiln sand won't be done anytime soon) that they'll just turn up and rip the whole driveway up - I think I saw it happen on Rogue Traders once, so it's at the back of my mind!

There's just a lot of little things which are adding up to become quite a headache.  

Thanks for all the support and advice on here so far, it's really appreciated.

That cementing is simply atrocious - end of. It's been done by someone who is either devoid of basic skills or just doesn't give a damn - or both. It would have been easy to have left a neat border, either through skill using a small trowel or by shaping it with a straight edge when the mortar had firmed up a little - and that requires little skill. There is no excuse. I'm a DIYer and would have managed a far superior finish - as would most on here.

No, blocks should not break when laid properly. We've just had an extension built by a local builder who was simply superb. We found him when we walked past his house and he was laying his block pave driveway. This met the road at a very low angle, and I noticed that the last row of blocks before the end decorative ones were sliced at a ridiculous size to suit, with the smallest being something like 10mm tapering to 5mm, literally slivers. It was just immaculate. And not broken...

I don't believe he can legitimately/legally pull up your driveway; you have paid the bulk of the cost so the materials have been more than paid for. The amount you are withholding is perfectly legit.

Which I am beginning to fear does not apply to this gentleman. He has done a lot to suggest he is working off the books. I think some due diligence is required as you move on - the start was ensuring you didn't pay any monies into an account that wasn't connected with the actual company, and thankfully you insisted on a written quotation even tho' he was trying to avoid this.

I wonder if there's anything in what Phil says? Worth trying a bit of investigation, including asking your local Trading Standards officer whether they have him noted as a business in the area. Ask for further advice based on their answer. In fact, ask for further advice anyway - 'what to do if...', scenarios so you are fully prepared and not caught wondering how to react.

Well, a chap turned up at 8am and pulled up the old concrete - he's now redoing it, so we'll see how that pans out.  Also, a delivery of about 30 bricks has turned up so it looks like he'll be doing something with those as well.  So we're off to a promising(?) start today at least!

I spoke to Citizens Advice today who advised me to download a letter template stating that I think the company have provided a poor quality service and that I'd like things fixed.  I can't see this guy batting an eyelid at a letter like that, but if today's work doesn't correct everything then I'll give it a shot.

Today I sent him a friendly message thanking him for getting the remedial work started so quickly and asking for the terms (and exclusions) of the 5 year guarantee.  His reply was: "The T&C's of the guarantee are simple - it covers any minor or major problems over 5 years.  I will send the guarantee once all balance has been paid that's what I've done with other customers."

I have a sinking feeling that the guarantee won't be worth the paper it's written on (in fact a part of me is now wondering whether this company will even be around in a year, or if he'll have wound it down and started up again under a different name...).

As risky as it might be, I'm going to continue to withhold payment after today until the kiln-dried sand and compacting has been done.  It's one of the things clearly marked on the 'contract' paperwork as something that would be done and so until it is I can't consider the work complete.  I just hope such a move doesn't backfire on me as the guy was borderline threatening on the phone to me yesterday, which is a worry.

victor2

guitarbloke said:

Jeepers_Creepers said:

guitarbloke said:

Jeepers_Creepers said:

I think a concern, Victor, is that the initial application of the kiln sand should be followed by a 'whacking' in order for it to settle tightly down into the gaps - at least according to guidelines I found online.

If they leave the sanding to GB, he won't be able to do that.

That cementing is atrocious. Are they actually thinking they can sort this? How? If they don't find a way, then they certainly don't deserve full payment anyway - it is simply not a good enough job.

The rest is sort of 'ok' - it'll be fine and look good - but the uneven gaps, misplaced bricks, broken ends - it's all "I really don't give a damn. I have no pride in my work. I'm doing this for a wage, that's all..."

Thanks Jeepers,

The guy/owner of the company said he'll be coming in the morning to 'even out the concrete' ...whatever that means.  We shall see!

In all fairness, I'm assuming it's not the easiest of jobs because of those wire fences, but as the experts, I figured that would be something for them to figure out!  He's accepted that the concrete does indeed look bad.

He believes that the broken brick may have happened when he went over it with the whacker yesterday, apparently that sometimes happens, but he assures me he'll sort it out.

Strangely (or not!), his attitude softened tremendously once I transferred the £3k to him earlier!!

I do have a niggling worry that if for any reason I don't make the full payment, (or if I hold some back because the kiln sand won't be done anytime soon) that they'll just turn up and rip the whole driveway up - I think I saw it happen on Rogue Traders once, so it's at the back of my mind!

There's just a lot of little things which are adding up to become quite a headache.  

Thanks for all the support and advice on here so far, it's really appreciated.

That cementing is simply atrocious - end of. It's been done by someone who is either devoid of basic skills or just doesn't give a damn - or both. It would have been easy to have left a neat border, either through skill using a small trowel or by shaping it with a straight edge when the mortar had firmed up a little - and that requires little skill. There is no excuse. I'm a DIYer and would have managed a far superior finish - as would most on here.

No, blocks should not break when laid properly. We've just had an extension built by a local builder who was simply superb. We found him when we walked past his house and he was laying his block pave driveway. This met the road at a very low angle, and I noticed that the last row of blocks before the end decorative ones were sliced at a ridiculous size to suit, with the smallest being something like 10mm tapering to 5mm, literally slivers. It was just immaculate. And not broken...

I don't believe he can legitimately/legally pull up your driveway; you have paid the bulk of the cost so the materials have been more than paid for. The amount you are withholding is perfectly legit.

Which I am beginning to fear does not apply to this gentleman. He has done a lot to suggest he is working off the books. I think some due diligence is required as you move on - the start was ensuring you didn't pay any monies into an account that wasn't connected with the actual company, and thankfully you insisted on a written quotation even tho' he was trying to avoid this.

I wonder if there's anything in what Phil says? Worth trying a bit of investigation, including asking your local Trading Standards officer whether they have him noted as a business in the area. Ask for further advice based on their answer. In fact, ask for further advice anyway - 'what to do if...', scenarios so you are fully prepared and not caught wondering how to react.

Well, a chap turned up at 8am and pulled up the old concrete - he's now redoing it, so we'll see how that pans out.  Also, a delivery of about 30 bricks has turned up so it looks like he'll be doing something with those as well.  So we're off to a promising(?) start today at least!

I spoke to Citizens Advice today who advised me to download a letter template stating that I think the company have provided a poor quality service and that I'd like things fixed.  I can't see this guy batting an eyelid at a letter like that, but if today's work doesn't correct everything then I'll give it a shot.

Today I sent him a friendly message thanking him for getting the remedial work started so quickly and asking for the terms (and exclusions) of the 5 year guarantee.  His reply was: "The T&C's of the guarantee are simple - it covers any minor or major problems over 5 years.  I will send the guarantee once all balance has been paid that's what I've done with other customers."

I have a sinking feeling that the guarantee won't be worth the paper it's written on (in fact a part of me is now wondering whether this company will even be around in a year, or if he'll have wound it down and started up again under a different name...).

As risky as it might be, I'm going to continue to withhold payment after today until the kiln-dried sand and compacting has been done.  It's one of the things clearly marked on the 'contract' paperwork as something that would be done and so until it is I can't consider the work complete.  I just hope such a move doesn't backfire on me as the guy was borderline threatening on the phone to me yesterday, which is a worry.

At least he seems to have recognised he did a poor job and is sorting it out. But then again, maybe that's just because he wants the balance paying. I suspect you're right to be concerned about the guarantee, if you ever get it. You could ask the neighbours if they've had theirs. Don't blame you for holding out with the final payment until everything is done as agreed, it's the only hold you have over him and you might not be able to contact him again after it is paid.

A local trader should be concerned about his reputation though. It just depends how "local" he is.

Le_Kirk

We haven't heard back from the OP since 11.00 - I hope the contractor hasn't buried him under his driveway!

guitarbloke

Le_Kirk said:

We haven't heard back from the OP since 11.00 - I hope the contractor hasn't buried him under his driveway!

Hah!  I'm still alive!

The workman has been out there since about 8am and has just left.  The concrete has been redone and whilst not perfect, is a lot better - see pictures.

https://imgur.com/a/4ZPZfxG

They've put cardboard there because there is a drop of about a foot between my drive and the next door neighbour, which he says made the job difficult.  I will just have to remove the cardboard once the concrete is dry   The broken brick hasn't been replaced, and the concrete face of the step they created also hasn't been touched. 

However they did put some bricks down on the little patch next to the front door which they had missed initially

The boss did come over and say hello to me just before they left.  He didn't ask if I was happy, I think he's aware of the answer - but crucially he didn't ask me for the rest of the money, so I'm assuming they will be coming back to finish the other little bits.  I certainly hope so.

I will wait for him to contact me now, which I'm sure he will do later this evening.

Jeepers_Creepers

guitarbloke said:

Well, a chap turned up at 8am and pulled up the old concrete - he's now redoing it, so we'll see how that pans out.  Also, a delivery of about 30 bricks has turned up so it looks like he'll be doing something with those as well.  So we're off to a promising(?) start today at least!

I spoke to Citizens Advice today who advised me to download a letter template stating that I think the company have provided a poor quality service and that I'd like things fixed.  I can't see this guy batting an eyelid at a letter like that, but if today's work doesn't correct everything then I'll give it a shot.

Today I sent him a friendly message thanking him for getting the remedial work started so quickly and asking for the terms (and exclusions) of the 5 year guarantee.  His reply was: "The T&C's of the guarantee are simple - it covers any minor or major problems over 5 years.  I will send the guarantee once all balance has been paid that's what I've done with other customers."

I have a sinking feeling that the guarantee won't be worth the paper it's written on (in fact a part of me is now wondering whether this company will even be around in a year, or if he'll have wound it down and started up again under a different name...).

As risky as it might be, I'm going to continue to withhold payment after today until the kiln-dried sand and compacting has been done.  It's one of the things clearly marked on the 'contract' paperwork as something that would be done and so until it is I can't consider the work complete.  I just hope such a move doesn't backfire on me as the guy was borderline threatening on the phone to me yesterday, which is a worry.

These template letters are very useful as - simple as they may appear - they do follow the correct 'legal' approach, so you can be confident that you have 'followed the correct process' if you use them, and not leave yourself vulnerable to a loophole that the scurrilous can escape through.

Yes, absolutely, hold on to the balance until you are 100% happy. There can be very very little doubt that this chancer is sorting things out for you solely because you have kept some cash back.

As you suspect, the 'guarantee' will be worth very little in itself as I doubt he will entertain coming back to sort out anything - and that goes for your neighbs too. However, if things do go wrong with the drive (I hope they won't) such as movement and subsidence, then you'll need to go through the correct process again to try and sort this, which will include Small Claims/ MoneyClaim.org and finally The Sheriff's Office. Let's hope it doesn't get to that :-)

This guy is not a proper trader. He's a chancer.

KEEP NOTING DOWN EVERYTHING!

guitarbloke

Jeepers_Creepers said:

guitarbloke said:

Well, a chap turned up at 8am and pulled up the old concrete - he's now redoing it, so we'll see how that pans out.  Also, a delivery of about 30 bricks has turned up so it looks like he'll be doing something with those as well.  So we're off to a promising(?) start today at least!

I spoke to Citizens Advice today who advised me to download a letter template stating that I think the company have provided a poor quality service and that I'd like things fixed.  I can't see this guy batting an eyelid at a letter like that, but if today's work doesn't correct everything then I'll give it a shot.

Today I sent him a friendly message thanking him for getting the remedial work started so quickly and asking for the terms (and exclusions) of the 5 year guarantee.  His reply was: "The T&C's of the guarantee are simple - it covers any minor or major problems over 5 years.  I will send the guarantee once all balance has been paid that's what I've done with other customers."

I have a sinking feeling that the guarantee won't be worth the paper it's written on (in fact a part of me is now wondering whether this company will even be around in a year, or if he'll have wound it down and started up again under a different name...).

As risky as it might be, I'm going to continue to withhold payment after today until the kiln-dried sand and compacting has been done.  It's one of the things clearly marked on the 'contract' paperwork as something that would be done and so until it is I can't consider the work complete.  I just hope such a move doesn't backfire on me as the guy was borderline threatening on the phone to me yesterday, which is a worry.

These template letters are very useful as - simple as they may appear - they do follow the correct 'legal' approach, so you can be confident that you have 'followed the correct process' if you use them, and not leave yourself vulnerable to a loophole that the scurrilous can escape through.

Yes, absolutely, hold on to the balance until you are 100% happy. There can be very very little doubt that this chancer is sorting things out for you solely because you have kept some cash back.

As you suspect, the 'guarantee' will be worth very little in itself as I doubt he will entertain coming back to sort out anything - and that goes for your neighbs too. However, if things do go wrong with the drive (I hope they won't) such as movement and subsidence, then you'll need to go through the correct process again to try and sort this, which will include Small Claims/ MoneyClaim.org and finally The Sheriff's Office. Let's hope it doesn't get to that :-)

This guy is not a proper trader. He's a chancer.

KEEP NOTING DOWN EVERYTHING!

Thanks Jeepers - I've got a several page long timeline of everything that's happened up until now and every conversation so I can refer back to it all if need be.

I popped over just now to speak to the neighbour opposite - he was the first one of us to have their drive done (it turns out he has a fairly senior role in the police force, so it might be handy to keep him on my side!).  He said he's had no real issues with this company, however he has also had to ask them a couple of times now about the kiln-dried sand.  So it looks like none of us have had the sand done at all. 

fezster

You seem quite focused on the kiln dried sand, which of course is required for effective jointing.
However, I'd be more concerned with the subbase they used. It's difficult to tell from these pictures:

https://i.imgur.com/GGofqND.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/v0fFaMg.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Lj5ZmKp.jpg

But looking at the line of the pavement between the 3 pictures - was there enough depth to allow for 100 - 150mm type 1 mot, 50mm sand and then the 50mm block? In terms of longevity, that is the most important question.

DiddyDavies

One thing that amazed me from those pictures is that a company who supposedly have many years experience in driveway installations can't even make a clean cut on block pavers.
The cuts on these:

are terrible and look as if they've been done with an extremely damaged cutting disc or by someone using a poor quality chisel.

doningtonphil

Le_Kirk said:

doningtonphil said:

The website looks legit with an 0800 number and a 'local address' - until you realise the address given is a 'Mailboxes etc' office and the 0800 phone number is probably diverted to the mobile in his  back pocket.
That, along wiht him knocking on the door offering to do your driver while he's in the area, give me the distinct feeling this guy is one of those that drives around in brand new vehicles and leads a 'tax free' existence.

Well, that is easily proven, just call the 0800 number when he is on your drive this morning!  See if his pocket gets a phone call.  Anyway, that only proves he doesn't have office staff and has diverted his phone because he has given them an early break for the upcoming festivities!

The point I was trying to make is that his website looks swanky buth the address given IS a MBE shop and the 0800 number COULD go anywhere, so just a reminder DONT base any impressions you form on how 'legit' a websit looks.
I think in this case, it is very inlikely thee guy has any office to send his staff home early from

markin

DiddyDavies said:

One thing that amazed me from those pictures is that a company who supposedly have many years experience in driveway installations can't even make a clean cut on block pavers.
The cuts on these:

are terrible and look as if they've been done with an extremely damaged cutting disc or by someone using a poor quality chisel.

Surly they shuld all be beveled so they don't look cut. looks a bodge to me.