Can't afford to fix boiler

nicmyles

Aranyani said:

caprikid1 said:

I would like to understand how long most of the landlords with more than one property could remain solvent if all of their rent stopped for 6 months. I think there are some harsh / self righteous comments being aimed at the OP. I agree that renting a property whilst in a DMP was probably the wrong move but some of the unsubstantiated comments are IMHO unacceptable.

6-12 months without rent is exactly the kind of thing potential landlords should consider and plan for before they go into the business.  It’s not so out there or unusual. 

Yes, and most people's answer to that would involve looking at their normal income and feeling they could cover expenses that arose, or that if they lost income, they would be able to find other work within a reasonable period of time. Which is not an option as easily available to people during a pandemic. I believe the OP has said up-thread that he did have savings to cover these eventualities but they have been eroded.

nicmyles

AdrianC said:

Benefit of the doubt doesn't give the tenants a decent home.

Don't they deserve that same "benefit of the doubt" as to their own financial situations...? They're the ones living in an unheated house in mid-December.

If they posted in here, the advice they would be given would be broadly along the lines of...

• No, you cannot withhold your rent.
• Yes, your landlord has a legal obligation.
• Your easiest resolution is to move.

From the OP's angle, the easiest solution is to see if the council can provide emergency funding, which will likely come with a charge against the property.

I'm not really sure what your issue is with the substance of what I'm saying, since you don't appear to be making value judgements on the OP's situation, and are in fact offering him constructive advice, which is all I am suggesting people should be doing.

numbercruncher8

I think the issue is 'benefit of the doubt' is a value judgement in itself.

Their tenants are living without heating in winter and there have been no attempts made to fix it because of a cashflow problem.
That sort of offence is more strict liability if no other arrangements have been made - the tenants not paying rent is no defence if the offence was to be ruled upon - that is a seperate issue, and there are no other acceptable excuses to have people living in that condition. Benefit of the doubt would not exist in this situation.

moneysavinghero

You are on a DMP so you owe money that you are struggling to pay back.
You can't afford a new boiler so you are struggling to meet your legal obligations as a Landlord.

Sell the property to another landlord. You can they pay off your debts and don't need to worry about the boiler anymore. This may not be what you want to happen, but it is the reality of the situation that you are in.

numbercruncher8

Even selling is not likely to resolve the problem as it may take months to resolve; if the tenants are uncooperative it may scare off everyone - what if access is denied?

If they are feeling cheesed off and litigious, are the rest of the legal obligations in check? Certificates? Deposit protection?

nicmyles

numbercruncher8 said:

I think the issue is 'benefit of the doubt' is a value judgement in itself.

Their tenants are living without heating in winter and there have been no attempts made to fix it because of a cashflow problem.
That sort of offence is more strict liability if no other arrangements have been made - the tenants not paying rent is no defence if the offence was to be ruled upon - that is a seperate issue, and there are no other acceptable excuses to have people living in that condition. Benefit of the doubt would not exist in this situation.

Perhaps I'm being unclear. I'll try once more and then give it up.
I am not saying there are any grey areas with regard to the practical, legal situation the OP is in. He cannot be given the benefit of the doubt in any sense in that regard. It is what it is, and it's not a good situation for him or the tenants.
I am saying that attributing poor motives and negligence to him may not be fair, given the wider context we are living in. He could have approached this letting in the best possible way, with the best possible contingencies in place, and still have ended up where he is, due to the pandemic. The same goes for his tenants.
His original post was simply asking for what he should do. Various posters have outlined his options, which is good. Hopefully he will resolve the situation in one way or another quickly.

Aranyani

nicmyles said:

Aranyani said:

caprikid1 said:

I would like to understand how long most of the landlords with more than one property could remain solvent if all of their rent stopped for 6 months. I think there are some harsh / self righteous comments being aimed at the OP. I agree that renting a property whilst in a DMP was probably the wrong move but some of the unsubstantiated comments are IMHO unacceptable.

6-12 months without rent is exactly the kind of thing potential landlords should consider and plan for before they go into the business.  It’s not so out there or unusual. 

Yes, and most people's answer to that would involve looking at their normal income and feeling they could cover expenses that arose, or that if they lost income, they would be able to find other work within a reasonable period of time. Which is not an option as easily available to people during a pandemic. I believe the OP has said up-thread that he did have savings to cover these eventualities but they have been eroded.

Losing your income is another thing landlords should plan for.  In fact everybody should, it can happen at any time to anybody.  Planning for it is even more important when other people's homes depend on you.

FreeBear

AdrianC said: From the OP's angle, the easiest solution is to see if the council can provide emergency funding, which will likely come with a charge against the property.

If the tenants are claiming a qualifying benefit, it may be possible to get a replacement fitted under the Energy Company Obligation scheme. Would need some degree of cooperation from the tenants and a bit of paperwork from the OP.

Angela_D_3

FreeBear said:

AdrianC said: From the OP's angle, the easiest solution is to see if the council can provide emergency funding, which will likely come with a charge against the property.

If the tenants are claiming a qualifying benefit, it may be possible to get a replacement fitted under the Energy Company Obligation scheme. Would need some degree of cooperation from the tenants and a bit of paperwork from the OP.

Its not available to tenants any more,  the OP may be able to apply for it but they want to insulate the floor too which may or may not be deep enough.  Worth a try though 

nicmyles

Aranyani said:

nicmyles said:

Aranyani said:

caprikid1 said:

I would like to understand how long most of the landlords with more than one property could remain solvent if all of their rent stopped for 6 months. I think there are some harsh / self righteous comments being aimed at the OP. I agree that renting a property whilst in a DMP was probably the wrong move but some of the unsubstantiated comments are IMHO unacceptable.

6-12 months without rent is exactly the kind of thing potential landlords should consider and plan for before they go into the business.  It’s not so out there or unusual. 

Yes, and most people's answer to that would involve looking at their normal income and feeling they could cover expenses that arose, or that if they lost income, they would be able to find other work within a reasonable period of time. Which is not an option as easily available to people during a pandemic. I believe the OP has said up-thread that he did have savings to cover these eventualities but they have been eroded.

Losing your income is another thing landlords should plan for.  In fact everybody should, it can happen at any time to anybody.  Planning for it is even more important when other people's homes depend on you.

I agree with you, but the pandemic is an exceptional circumstance that many people (and entire industries) have not - and could not - made adequate contingency plans for. What amount of income, in your view, should a landlord have in the bank to prepare for lost income? Three months? Six months? Seems reasonable to me, if unachievable for many, but depending on the impact of the pandemic on your industry, even this may have been inadequate.