Solicitor asking for proof of funds

AskAsk

Exodi said:

I'm not sure why people are vilifying the solicitor for quering this - I'd expect most solicitors would.

You have someone who finished university 5 years ago (likely putting them in their early 20's) with over £69,000 in their current account. Most peoples life savings wouldn't get close to that figure.

If the 8 months or so of bank statements shows that the OP is able to save £200 a month or something, then the solicitor is undoubtedly going to be questioning how someone who has been working for 5 years has accrued £69,000 - the maths wouldn't work, there would obviously be other sources.

exactly this.  if the OP earned half a million a year and saves 10k a month, then the solicitors may not get so pedantic.  something has obviously raised their suspiction and the OP saying he has no more than 8 months of bank statements and moves his money from one bank to another frequently would make me suspicious, let alone someone looking to investigate!

dipesh010

I would like to add: the 36k is coming from oversea gift and I have bank statements from my dad that goes back to 2009 when he opened oversea account. Bank branch manager is happy to email my lawyer to say these are genuine statements. So I am not worry about 36k.
30k is something I can declare easily as it shows steady savings over 5 years 
The 40k is something I gain from combination from my uni loan (2011) and placement (2014) and there is no way I can go back 10-7 years to declare where this money is coming from. Over the phone my bank said they can only provide 5 years statements.

I used to move these 40k from one bank to another (whoever used to provide high ISA interest rate). I remember at natwest or santander bank they used to give a ISA book and when closing the account they used to take take the book back. So there is no way I can show bank statements of accounts thats already closed.  

I cannot apply for 40k extra mortgage as I have maxed out. There is no tax fraud here, I work and I pay my tax unless saving student loan for house is a crime
I understand I need to directly speak to my lawyer but she is taking very long time to answer and I am using this forum to get some understanding on how this works and if someone been in this situation before.

dipesh010

AskAsk said:

davidmcn said:

AskAsk said:

Scotbot said:

moneysavinghero said:

Mickey666 said:

I wonder if the OP’s income would support a larger mortgage than they actually need?  If so, another possibility might be to borrow an extra, say, £80k and only put up a more ‘reasonable’ deposit that might not attract so much attention.  Then, when the deal is all done and dusted, just use their £80k cash to make a lump sum payment to reduce their mortgage, which won’t attract the attention of their solicitor.

Which just demonstrates how useless the anti-laundering checks are. All they do is inconvenience genuine purchasers. The organised money launderers will always find ways round it and carry on laundering their money with ease.

I was a cash buyer and used a letter from an overseas solicitor confirming a house sale as proof of funds. Totally legit but it would have be pretty easy to fake.

it is easy to fake foreign documents, but the solicitors have covered themselves if they are questioned by HMRC as to what due dilligence have they carried out.  they are not expected to investigate overseas fraud, but they can show that they have been given the documentation and that means that they are off the hook.

i would be interested to know if they shop people to HMRC, so if they see a large overseas transaction, whether they report them to HMRC to investigate for other activities.

No, they don't, because there's no obligation on solicitors to do so. We generally have no idea about our clients' tax affairs, and aren't going to around accusing them of tax evasion just because they happen to have a lot of money.

If there is suspicion about money-laundering, the report goes to the National Crime Agency.

so they do shop them, all be it to the National Crime Agency. 

when i was working, we had to shop clients to the fraud body through our internal channels if we found suspicious financial activities and if we didn't there would be financially penalty levied as well as criminal proceedings.

If there is suspicion about money-laundering can I still buy the property or I will have National Crime Agency questioning me? when do the solicitor think its a money laundering? If I provide the bank statements going back to 2016 which does not show the original of funds then is it still counted as money laundering? 

Slinky

Good lord, it's as though your solicitors think the bank don't do any money laundering checks for themselves!

Our solicitor required 6 months worth of statements with any amount over £1K coming into an account requiring an explanation. This was for a cash purchase well in excess of the transaction value the OP is involved with. There's no way I would have gone back 9 years, 6 months was a nightmare with my OH shifting money around rate chasing.

I'd have changed solicitors if they weren't happy with 6 months.

davidmcn

dipesh010 said:

AskAsk said:

davidmcn said:

AskAsk said:

Scotbot said:

moneysavinghero said:

Mickey666 said:

I wonder if the OP’s income would support a larger mortgage than they actually need?  If so, another possibility might be to borrow an extra, say, £80k and only put up a more ‘reasonable’ deposit that might not attract so much attention.  Then, when the deal is all done and dusted, just use their £80k cash to make a lump sum payment to reduce their mortgage, which won’t attract the attention of their solicitor.

Which just demonstrates how useless the anti-laundering checks are. All they do is inconvenience genuine purchasers. The organised money launderers will always find ways round it and carry on laundering their money with ease.

I was a cash buyer and used a letter from an overseas solicitor confirming a house sale as proof of funds. Totally legit but it would have be pretty easy to fake.

it is easy to fake foreign documents, but the solicitors have covered themselves if they are questioned by HMRC as to what due dilligence have they carried out.  they are not expected to investigate overseas fraud, but they can show that they have been given the documentation and that means that they are off the hook.

i would be interested to know if they shop people to HMRC, so if they see a large overseas transaction, whether they report them to HMRC to investigate for other activities.

No, they don't, because there's no obligation on solicitors to do so. We generally have no idea about our clients' tax affairs, and aren't going to around accusing them of tax evasion just because they happen to have a lot of money.

If there is suspicion about money-laundering, the report goes to the National Crime Agency.

so they do shop them, all be it to the National Crime Agency. 

when i was working, we had to shop clients to the fraud body through our internal channels if we found suspicious financial activities and if we didn't there would be financially penalty levied as well as criminal proceedings.

If there is suspicion about money-laundering can I still buy the property or I will have National Crime Agency questioning me? when do the solicitor think its a money laundering? If I provide the bank statements going back to 2016 which does not show the original of funds then is it still counted as money laundering?

No, the solicitors are unlikely to regard failure to produce bank statements from years ago as being evidence of anything suspicious. You really are worrying unnecessarily about this, just wait to see what the solicitor says rather than fret about every possible permutation of what might follow.

AskAsk

dipesh010 said:

AskAsk said:

davidmcn said:

AskAsk said:

Scotbot said:

moneysavinghero said:

Mickey666 said:

I wonder if the OP’s income would support a larger mortgage than they actually need?  If so, another possibility might be to borrow an extra, say, £80k and only put up a more ‘reasonable’ deposit that might not attract so much attention.  Then, when the deal is all done and dusted, just use their £80k cash to make a lump sum payment to reduce their mortgage, which won’t attract the attention of their solicitor.

Which just demonstrates how useless the anti-laundering checks are. All they do is inconvenience genuine purchasers. The organised money launderers will always find ways round it and carry on laundering their money with ease.

I was a cash buyer and used a letter from an overseas solicitor confirming a house sale as proof of funds. Totally legit but it would have be pretty easy to fake.

it is easy to fake foreign documents, but the solicitors have covered themselves if they are questioned by HMRC as to what due dilligence have they carried out.  they are not expected to investigate overseas fraud, but they can show that they have been given the documentation and that means that they are off the hook.

i would be interested to know if they shop people to HMRC, so if they see a large overseas transaction, whether they report them to HMRC to investigate for other activities.

No, they don't, because there's no obligation on solicitors to do so. We generally have no idea about our clients' tax affairs, and aren't going to around accusing them of tax evasion just because they happen to have a lot of money.

If there is suspicion about money-laundering, the report goes to the National Crime Agency.

so they do shop them, all be it to the National Crime Agency. 

when i was working, we had to shop clients to the fraud body through our internal channels if we found suspicious financial activities and if we didn't there would be financially penalty levied as well as criminal proceedings.

If there is suspicion about money-laundering can I still buy the property or I will have National Crime Agency questioning me? when do the solicitor think its a money laundering? If I provide the bank statements going back to 2016 which does not show the original of funds then is it still counted as money laundering? 

i expect they would report you to the National Crime Agency if they thought you were money laundering, but the amount of money here is probably not big enough for them to report you.  just give them the 5 years of bank statements as they ask and that may satisfy them.  if nothing else, they won't think you are money laundering, but just that you don't have sufficient proof of where the money came from.

if they don't think you have enough proof of where the money came from, then they won't let you buy the property as they can't do so until they are satisfied that the money is legit.

Thrugelmir

dipesh010 said:

 

I am happy to provide them 5 years bank statements. The issue is that I been moving my savings from one bank to another (whoever provides the highest interest rate). I even open ISA saving accounts in few banks and closed those accounts once no longer require. I used cash as a withdrawal/ deposit method when moving money from one bank to another 

How did you manage to move the money from one ISA to another if the money was withdrawn in cash? 

I'm surprised that previously banks didn't ask questions when you opened new acccounts and deposited thousands of pounds in cash. You had at least £40k by 2015, then subsequently accumulated another £20k plus. Moving sums as large as that around would have triggered alarms. Which makes even more puzzling that you've only now experienced questions. Banks are under a duty to report large cash deposits. 

AnotherJoe

My solicitor is satisfied with the fact my money is with a well known financial institution and in effect taken the fact its there, as that they have done their due diligence and thats good enough for the solicitor. Otherwise where does the train stop ?

OP your solicitor seems to be unreasonable to me, i suggest you tell them you cant go back beyond such and such a date and that if thats not good enough for them they shoudl let you know that asap so you can find a solicitor with more reasonable position.

AskAsk

Thrugelmir said:

dipesh010 said:

 

I am happy to provide them 5 years bank statements. The issue is that I been moving my savings from one bank to another (whoever provides the highest interest rate). I even open ISA saving accounts in few banks and closed those accounts once no longer require. I used cash as a withdrawal/ deposit method when moving money from one bank to another 

How did you manage to move the money from one ISA to another if the money was withdrawn in cash? 

I'm surprised that previously banks didn't ask questions when you opened new acccounts and deposited thousands of pounds in cash. You had at least £40k by 2015, then subsequently accumulated another £20k plus. Moving sums as large as that around would have triggered alarms. Which makes even more puzzling that you've only now experienced questions. Banks are under a duty to report large cash deposits. 

it does seem odd to take money out of ISA and put it into a normal account, but some people think the isa interest rates are so poor and so can't be bothered with it if they are a basic rate tax payer.

you can put up to 10k in cash into a bank account without queries being raised.  i am guessing the OP fed it through slowly!