Buying house where family have LPA

GN2020

Hi everyone,

My partner and I are buying our first home. 

We’ve gone through everything of putting in an offer, it being accepted, getting the mortgage approval and solicitor doing searches etc. 

The seller is currently in a care home and her family have power of attorney. 

Our solicitor contacted me on Tuesday this week to say she had been told by the vendors solicitor that, very sadly, the seller is in a poor state of health and doesn’t look as though she has long left to live.
So, our solicitor said she would push for completion by the 18/12.

She has contacted me today to say that she has found out that the power of attorney was granted but it has never been registered so legally, the family don’t have the right to sell the property. 

The house has been up for sale since November 2019, we put in an offer in September 2020.

I don’t know if I’ve got this wrong but don’t estate agents have to check that someone is legally entitled to sell a property before it’s put up for sale? 

The EA is saying they weren’t aware it hadn’t been registered. 

Our solicitor is amazing, can’t fault her one bit. 
I’m just quite miffed (as is our solicitor) that this has only been divulged now by the vendors solicitor, bearing in mind that our solicitor contacted them in September when the offer was accepted. 

They’ve been instructed to get it registered, although that could take a while. 

If it goes to probate we will wait as we really want this house, it’s our dream home.

I’m just curious to know if anyone on here has had a similar experience and what was the outcome? How long did it take etc? 

greatcrested

I'm surprised the POA has to be registered - my recollection from my own parents was that we could manage their affairs without registering it - but I'm not a lawyer!

More oncerning is the poor health. If the owner should die, the POA will immediateky lapse and it will be the Executers of the Estate(if there is a will) who would take over. May be the same people but the process is different and Probate would need to be granted before the sale could go ahead.

SallyDucati

It was a few years ago that I registered financial LPA for my Mum with the Office of the Public Guardian (the body they are registered with) but I do think it took longer than a week and that was through a solicitor.  Currently looks like 8-10 weeks.
https://www.gov.uk/power-of-attorney/register

Register a lasting power of attorney

When you’ve made your lasting power of attorney (LPA), you need to register it with the Office of the Public Guardian (OPG).

It takes between 8 and 10 weeks to register an LPA if there are no mistakes in the application.

You can apply to register your LPA yourself if you’re able to make your own decisions.

Your attorney can also register it for you. You’ll be told if they do and you can object to the registration.

Unfortunately looks like you might have to wait, if sadly the owner passes soon.  

Sorry to not be more optimistic for you.

GN2020

greatcrested said:

I'm surprised the POA has to be registered - my recollection from my own parents was that we could manage their affairs without registering it - but I'm not a lawyer!

More oncerning is the poor health. If the owner should die, the POA will immediateky lapse and it will be the Executers of the Estate(if there is a will) who would take over. May be the same people but the process is different and Probate would need to be granted before the sale could go ahead.

Apparently the POA has to be registered before they can legally sell her house. 

I was told there are some circumstances where it doesn’t need to be registered straight away but for a property sale, it has to be. 

Nothing is ever straight forward is it! 🙄

I’ve heard some horror stories about probate taking months and months! 

Just have to see where things are up to in the new year and go from there really. 

davidmcn

This all assumes the owner doesn't still have capacity to sign stuff etc herself if need be - not sure whether you've been told that.

GN2020

davidmcn said:

This all assumes the owner doesn't still have capacity to sign stuff etc herself if need be - not sure whether you've been told that.

Sadly, she has Alzheimer’s and doesn’t have capacity. 

It’s a dreadfully sad situation all round really. 

GN2020

SallyDucati said:

It was a few years ago that I registered financial LPA for my Mum with the Office of the Public Guardian (the body they are registered with) but I do think it took longer than a week and that was through a solicitor.  Currently looks like 8-10 weeks.
https://www.gov.uk/power-of-attorney/register

Register a lasting power of attorney

When you’ve made your lasting power of attorney (LPA), you need to register it with the Office of the Public Guardian (OPG).

It takes between 8 and 10 weeks to register an LPA if there are no mistakes in the application.

You can apply to register your LPA yourself if you’re able to make your own decisions.

Your attorney can also register it for you. You’ll be told if they do and you can object to the registration.

Unfortunately looks like you might have to wait, if sadly the owner passes soon.  

Sorry to not be more optimistic for you.

Please don’t apologise, I appreciate your response 😊

The main thing that’s miffed me is that the estate agent has admitted they didn’t know it wasn’t registered. 

Had they checked it could have all been sorted out by now. 

greatcrested

GN2020 said:

greatcrested said:

I'm surprised the POA has to be registered - my recollection from my own parents was that we could manage their affairs without registering it - but I'm not a lawyer!

More oncerning is the poor health. If the owner should die, the POA will immediateky lapse and it will be the Executers of the Estate(if there is a will) who would take over. May be the same people but the process is different and Probate would need to be granted before the sale could go ahead.

Apparently the POA has to be registered before they can legally sell her house. 

I was told there are some circumstances where it doesn’t need to be registered straight away but for a property sale, it has to be. 

Nothing is ever straight forward is it! 🙄

I’ve heard some horror stories about probate taking months and months! 

Just have to see where things are up to in the new year and go from there really. 

Ah! In our case it was the 'old style' POA befoe LPOA were introduced.

AdrianC

greatcrested said:

I'm surprised the POA has to be registered - my recollection from my own parents was that we could manage their affairs without registering it - but I'm not a lawyer!

It didn't used to need to be registered - when we did it for the inlaws in the mid 00s, it didn't. When we did it for my old man about five years ago, it did.

<quick google>
Ah, the change took effect in 2007.
Lasting Powers of Attorney (x2 - health/welfare and property/finances) replaced Enduring Powers of Attorney.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_Capacity_Act_2005

Keep_pedalling

greatcrested said:

GN2020 said:

greatcrested said:

I'm surprised the POA has to be registered - my recollection from my own parents was that we could manage their affairs without registering it - but I'm not a lawyer!

More oncerning is the poor health. If the owner should die, the POA will immediateky lapse and it will be the Executers of the Estate(if there is a will) who would take over. May be the same people but the process is different and Probate would need to be granted before the sale could go ahead.

Apparently the POA has to be registered before they can legally sell her house. 

I was told there are some circumstances where it doesn’t need to be registered straight away but for a property sale, it has to be. 

Nothing is ever straight forward is it! 🙄

I’ve heard some horror stories about probate taking months and months! 

Just have to see where things are up to in the new year and go from there really. 

Ah! In our case it was the 'old style' POA befoe LPOA were introduced.

That would have been the old Enduring power of attorney (EPA). Lasting powers of attorney (LPA) replaced those and should always be registered from day one. It is the attorneys who are at fault over this one, quite how they have managed to look after the vendors affairs up to now without doing so is odd.

AdrianC

Keep_pedalling said:
It is the attorneys who are at fault over this one, quite how they have managed to look after the vendors affairs up to now without doing so is odd.

Simple - nobody's ever picked them up on it...

This is probably the first time an actual solicitor's looked at it, though.