Eon Boiler Installation problems Regulations?

lizzy2mellow

Looking for some advice please after my new boiler fitting has left me with lots of questions and no living room fire. 

Here's my questions. Story below that.

*I wanted reassurance it was fitted safely/correctly and has a filter.

*Does anyone know about regulations etc that must be followed during an installation? Should they have ripped out my fire looking for this leak that still remained after they took it out and just left me to "Get a local in". I just want to know what is correct. 

*What if this is not the boiler I signed up for and paid my contribution towards. Is this a breach in contract? What would that mean for the future/my guarantee etc?

*Should they have left all the damage and mess after an installation and just leave some of it as "well these things get broken, you just have to expect that". 

*Surely there is some kind of policy in place to say they should have dealt with this complaint in a timely way and not left it over 8 months? 

*Due to the time it took them it's over 12 months since fitting. This is not my fault.

I no longer have the paperwork thing they want from the local guy. Again due to the length of time it has taken them to get back to me. 

I waited over 8 months for them to take this up and after a few days they closed it and didn't even answer my questions due to being fixated on this report. 

Even if you park the bit about anyone else coming into the house after the install (even though I followed the advice given by Chanlon and they confirmed what they said). Did they follow whatever regulations are in place regarding whipping out my fire and leaving me like that. 

Backstory: (sorry long for details)

I started a complaint in Feb which Eon didn't investigate till Nov and due to time passed they say it's over 12 months since install so cant look into some stuff? and closed my complaint.

I had a new boiler fitted Sep 2019 through Eon. It took twice as long to get fitted about 26+ weeks rather than the up to 12 weeks stated and was through the scheme. 

1 chap turned up. I wasn't there when he left. It was at that point I noticed all the things that had not been put back together or broken by him and no mention if it.  

I did email the fitters who were sent from Eon (Chanlon).

After a few weeks I realised my living room gas fire wasn't coming on, it had not been used as it was warm. Another guy sent out.  Apparently the 1st guy who fitted the boiled had condemned it but didn't mention anything. I'm guessing finding a problem like this was the last thing he wanted to do after an install like this. This guy did some tests, said I had a leak/drop and said he would take the fire out.  At this point I was like "OMG, thank you so much..saved from potential disaster etc". 

He takes the fire out and tests again. Same problem, I've still got this leak. He then said "well it's a permissible leak but it's nothing to do with us as we were here to fit the boiler. Get a local in to find it. But it's likely they will need to rip up your living room floor to find the problem." 

I was pretty devastated as the fire was only a couple years old.

I had been left feeling really concerned about the quality of their work but it was finally over. 

I got a local who came and confirmed I still had this drop and confirmed everything that Chanlon said. It was a permissible drop. I told him my story of the fitting and he then said Chanlon should not have taken my fire out and shouldn't have left me the way they did as they had been working on the system so they should have followed it up. 

He also said they should have done an inspection and tests in the house before the installation. I said they did and no issue (the test was carried out in March I think, so maybe another should have been done as they took so long to install?) This chap also noted "my boss wouldn't have been happy with this job"...

I then had a chap in to work in my bathroom. Clearly he saw my new boiler. We got chatting about it and he also said "I don't think there's a filter on your new boiler. That's just asking for trouble!!"   He didn't inspect it, just a quick look when he was doing other stuff. He also said that the fitters shouldn't have taken out my fire and he really wasn't sure about them leaving me like this either. 

In  Jan I emailed the fitters, no response twice. I emailed Eon with my concerns on the 18th Feb. It took me till the 2nd Nov to get anyone to actually look into this.

He said he wanted some reports and photos. I sent photos and I told him any paperwork I had, had been moved about July time due to working from home and schooling kids etc. 

I also noted I couldn't remember who actually came into my house as it was so long ago and I had to call that many businesses to get someone anyway. (The thing is, I didn't pay the guy. He didn't want anything for it as I think he felt so sorry for me. So I can't even look back on a bank statement.) 

But I do have a bit of paper from the actual boiler fitter guy, and on that it says there is a drop on the gas line - permissible. 

I also asked for their complaints policy and details of what to do if I wasn't happy. I was never given this.

Eon just didn't respond. Ignored my other emails and on Friday past I emailed again and got an almost instant response to say I had been sent a letter on the 24th Nov stating they had rejected and closed my complaint.

It stated due to the length of time that's passed, over 12 months from fitting they couldn't look into it and due to me not supplying some report they are rejecting it. 

Any thoughts or information would be greatly received before I start my next journey via the Ombudsman. Something else I just don't have the time to do. 

Thanks in advance Lizzy

ssparks2003

Sorry I got as far as finding out there is a leak somewhere in the pipework under the floor and started to give up the will to live.

Perhaps give a shortened version of events, if you actually want some advice 

Alter_ego

Sorry, didn't make it past about half way.

tacpot12

Hi Lizzy, 

I have read all of your post, but you should appreciate that you have not done a good job of explaining the problems. If you complain to an Ombudsman or seek to sue someone in court, they will be put off by long explanations. You need to work on providing short explanations of the problem.

My reply is long because it deals with all the issues you have raised. 

Your situation is complicated because you have four problems:

• The installer damaged items in your home, and did not report the damage to you or fix it promptly. In fact, they delayed investigating and are now claiming that because it has been 12 months since the damage was found they are saying that cannot investigate them.

• The installer condemned and removed a two year old Gas Fire when this was probably unnecessary.

• The installer has not installed a Magnetic Particle Filter which could invalidate the manufacturer's warranty.

• Eon has asked you to provide one or more reports to them before they will properly investigate your complaint, but they are not clear what reports they are asking for, why it is relevant to your case, and why they think you should have copies when they don't.  

It is also complicated because you were using a government scheme to pay the bulk of the cost to install the boiler. It would be useful if you could confirm the name of the scheme; it might be the "Affordable Warmth Scheme".

You can complain to the Energy Ombudsman here: Energy Ombudsman: Here to help with gas & electricity complaints | Ombudsman Services (ombudsman-services.org)

The information you have had from the local fitters is hearsay. They need to put their findings in writing if they are to have any relevance to your complaint. 

Regarding the damage to your home:

It is unreasonable for Eon to use their delay as a reason not to investigate the issues you raise. Neither the ombudsman nor a court should allow them to do this. You need to put in writing a list of what they have damaged, and ask them to fix the issues within three months. (You need to allow a reasonable time).

If they ask for proof that they damaged the items, you will need to assert that your word should be sufficient, unless you have photos taken at the time, or any other evidence you can give. If Eon don’t accept your work or your evidence, and they might not, you need to show the ombudsman and that it is likely the damage occurred during the installation. Photos taken at the time are the best evidence. 
 

Regarding the removal of the gas fire:

You need to ask Eon to confirm why the fire was condemned because it was relatively new and you don’t know what fault was found with the fire.  If neither Eon nor Chalon can confirm why the fire was condemned, I would ask and expect them to reinstall it. However, you may have a problem if you no longer have the fire. I doubt a court would order them to replace it, but I think you should ask them to replace it as they are liable for the misdiagnosis if their contractor didn’t use reasonable care to determine whether the fire was faulty before condemning it. You will need to offer to contribute to the cost of the fire (but not its fitting) as your fire was two years old. I would offer 20% of the cost of the fire. 

You need to make the point that the engineer found a permissible pressure drop therefore the pressure drop was not a reason to remove the fire. If the installation was inspected in March by a Gas Safe Registered Installer and no pressure drop found (or a lower permissible pressure drop was recorded), then it would seem that Chalon caused a small leak when installing the boiler. As it is a permissible pressure drop, I don’t think a court will order them to find or fix the leak. 

Regarding whether a filter and a power flush are necessary for the manufacturer’s warranty to apply:

If you can confirm the make and model of the boiler, someone here will be able to confirm whether the heating system should have had a magnetic filter fitted, and whether the system needed to be power flushed prior to the boiler being commissioned. Was the system power flushed? If it was, it would have involved running a cleaning solution around the existing system for most of the day and vibrating all of the radiators. It would have been noisy when this was done. (Really Eon should confirm what steps were necessary to ensure the boiler would be covered by its manufacturer's warranty.) 

Does the contract mention a filter and powerflushing the system? 

Regarding the reports that Eon have asked for: 

It seems unreasonable that Eon not to explain the name of the report or its relevance. Rather than speculate what they are after, I would write to them and asked them to confirm what reports they have asked for, AND why they don’t have copies of them already.

lizzy2mellow

Tacpot12. Thank you very much for your amazing response! You have given me a lot of clarity and help for going forward. I know I put a lot of info in my post however its not something I do often and felt there's a lot of bits to my problem, so didn't want to miss anything out. But it would appear you have picked it apart well and I thank you again for that! 
I was signed up for this -

• TF1 Compact System filter
• Heating System Inhibitor 1l
• Heating System Cleaner 1l
• Worcester Greenstar 34CDi Classic (Combination)

What I have is a Worcester Greenstar 8000 Life.
I did not have anything flushed before the boiler was fitted. 
I don't have the fire. I cant remember if he took it away or if the other half put it to the tip afterwards. For weeks after I thought they had done me a favour. It wasn't until others made comment about how they thought it shouldn't have been removed and that's when I started questioning that too. 
I'm pretty sure the scheme was called affordable warmth or very similar, it had a lower contribution level to the one they have now.  It was not mentioned on any of my documents from them.  I contributed £286 towards it all but it didn't say how much the entire job would have been.
I'm happy to deal with and seek clarity on what happened with Eon and Chanlon and "park" what the others said about the job. But Eon don't seem to want to talk about anything at all.
Thanks again for taking time to help me
Lizzy 

neilmcl

The Greenstar 8000 range are the latest range of WB combi boilers which are replacing the older CDi models so nothing to complain about there. It's not always recommended to flush an existing, older CH system as it may cause more issues than it solve. I'm struggling to se what you have to complain about really.

tacpot12

As neilmcl says, the Greenstar 8000 range is a newer replacement, so no obvious issue there, but the range includes five levels of hot water output (30/35/40/45/50 kW). The 35kW model would be the correct replacement for a Greenstar 34CDi Classic. You should check that you have the 35kW version of the Greenstar. There should be a Gas Council number on the data plate that will be 47-800-17 for a 35kW version, and 47-800-16 for a 30kW. If you have the 30kW, you have not received what you have paid for. Also, you can google "Fernox TF1 Compact" to see what the filter should look like. It will normally be installed close to the boiler, but might be somewhat out of the way as they are not the prettiest of filters. I wouldn't worry too much if you don't have this exact filter, they all do much the same thing. 

If the filter is not present on the system, ask Eon to fit it. It won't hurt too much that it hasn't been present for a year, but having one is a good investment that will help the boiler be as reliable as possible.  

The following is a quote from the Greenstar 8000 manual:
"It is a requirement of the Building Services Compliance Guide which is a second tier document to the Building Regulations to flush and inhibit the primary water system in accordance with BS 7593."
The manual also says:
"Where possible keep the existing appliance/circulating pump in place when flushing the system before installing the new appliance. Alternatively use an after market power flushing system or similar to remove magnetite and other debris from the central heating system." 
In my experience, installers rarely ever use flush the system using the existing appliance, they generally bypass the appliance with a power flush machine so that they can crack on with removing the old appliance and fixing the new one to the wall. 
 
neilmcl is correct that there is some debate as to wisdom of flushing systems, but as the installation manual and building regulations require it, it can't be skipped.  You should have been left with a GAS BOILER SYSTEM COMMISSIONING CHECKLIST & WARRANTY VALIDATION RECORD as part of the documentation for the boiler. (Any engineer coming to service the boiler should ask for this when he arrives, so you should have this.)   Check the record to see that the box was ticked to say that the system was .".. flushed, cleaned, and a suitable inhibitor added according to BS7593 and the manufacturer's instructions." if this has been ticked, there is no point trying to argue that it has been skipped - you will be covered by the warranty. If it has not been ticked, or you weren't left with the record, or it was left but not completed, then complain to Eon. If it's not been completed in its entirety, you need the installer back to completed it. 

Which reminds me - you should have had a Completion Certificate from Building Control. If you haven't had this, this is something else that you need to complain to Eon about.

There is quite a fine line between a bad install and a good install, and it can be difficult for people who are not familiar with the trade to see the difference. I think it more likely that your installation is fine, but the installer needs to learn more about customer care. 

lizzy2mellow

neilmcl said:

The Greenstar 8000 range are the latest range of WB combi boilers which are replacing the older CDi models so nothing to complain about there. It's not always recommended to flush an existing, older CH system as it may cause more issues than it solve. I'm struggling to se what you have to complain about really.

Hi, thanks for your response. With regards to the boiler itself, I am trying to figure out how it affects me if it is not the one I should have had fitted for future guarantee purposes. As I have no paperwork/ownership for this one. Thanks 

lizzy2mellow

tacpot12 said:

As neilmcl says, the Greenstar 8000 range is a newer replacement, so no obvious issue there, but the range includes five levels of hot water output (30/35/40/45/50 kW). The 35kW model would be the correct replacement for a Greenstar 34CDi Classic. You should check that you have the 35kW version of the Greenstar. There should be a Gas Council number on the data plate that will be 47-800-17 for a 35kW version, and 47-800-16 for a 30kW. If you have the 30kW, you have not received what you have paid for. Also, you can google "Fernox TF1 Compact" to see what the filter should look like. It will normally be installed close to the boiler, but might be somewhat out of the way as they are not the prettiest of filters. I wouldn't worry too much if you don't have this exact filter, they all do much the same thing. 

If the filter is not present on the system, ask Eon to fit it. It won't hurt too much that it hasn't been present for a year, but having one is a good investment that will help the boiler be as reliable as possible.  

The following is a quote from the Greenstar 8000 manual:
"It is a requirement of the Building Services Compliance Guide which is a second tier document to the Building Regulations to flush and inhibit the primary water system in accordance with BS 7593."
The manual also says:
"Where possible keep the existing appliance/circulating pump in place when flushing the system before installing the new appliance. Alternatively use an after market power flushing system or similar to remove magnetite and other debris from the central heating system." 
In my experience, installers rarely ever use flush the system using the existing appliance, they generally bypass the appliance with a power flush machine so that they can crack on with removing the old appliance and fixing the new one to the wall. 
 
neilmcl is correct that there is some debate as to wisdom of flushing systems, but as the installation manual and building regulations require it, it can't be skipped.  You should have been left with a GAS BOILER SYSTEM COMMISSIONING CHECKLIST & WARRANTY VALIDATION RECORD as part of the documentation for the boiler. (Any engineer coming to service the boiler should ask for this when he arrives, so you should have this.)   Check the record to see that the box was ticked to say that the system was .".. flushed, cleaned, and a suitable inhibitor added according to BS7593 and the manufacturer's instructions." if this has been ticked, there is no point trying to argue that it has been skipped - you will be covered by the warranty. If it has not been ticked, or you weren't left with the record, or it was left but not completed, then complain to Eon. If it's not been completed in its entirety, you need the installer back to completed it. 

Which reminds me - you should have had a Completion Certificate from Building Control. If you haven't had this, this is something else that you need to complain to Eon about.

There is quite a fine line between a bad install and a good install, and it can be difficult for people who are not familiar with the trade to see the difference. I think it more likely that your installation is fine, but the installer needs to learn more about customer care. 

Hi tacpot12, just a wee update in case you were wondering. E.on refused point blank to look into any of my concerns until I emailed the Minister for Energy given this was a Government scheme and I copied their CEO. I got an instant response from someone up the tree at Eon. They and the director of the company that fitted the boiler came for an inspection. I had no filter after all! and a few other things that were not done right. So they are coming to flush my system and fit the filter mid Jan. By then its 18+ months with no filter. I have also asked for Eon to provide me with a letter from the manufacture of the boiler that this has not done anything to the guarantee.
But as far as the fire goes, the fitters never gave me any paperwork the day they came (their forth visit). So the fitters have now stated it never happened! That's the type of people they are. They think they can get away with it as I don't have paperwork, so apparently there is no record of their man being in my house that day taking out my fire. However I have a health and safety training office next door and I went straight through as soon as the fitter told me I had a gas leak. As I informed the company next door at the time hopefully they may even still have cctv of this guy carrying out my fire in pieces and dumping it in the garden. . But this is unfortunately the type of issue I am having. I just cant get over the lies by this company to cover their own behind's. God knows what will or wont happen next but I shall pursue it as far as I can.  Thanks again for your assistance as its really helped!