PPI CLAIM

carolann312

A while back I tried to claim PPI on 2 credit cards with TSB.  I was told that I did not have PPI and I forgot all about it.  Then in August 2019 I received a letter from them stating that they had made a mistake and that I did have a PPI policy with them.  I rang to ask what the policy was for and was told it was a loan for £1000 from 1998 which myself and my husband had taken out jointly.  I had no recollection of this as it was over 20 years ago.   After that I just kept getting generic letters stating that they were still looking into it.  In May of this year my husband passed away and I rang in October to find out what was happening with the claim and I was told that it was PPI on a mortgage and not a loan and they asked for a copy of my husband's death certificate.  I was also told that my husband had signed a form but not me and she couldn't tell me what this form was. 

We have always said no to any insurance on loans and mortgages so could not understand why there was PPI on this mortgage.  It now turns out that the aforementioned form was for PPI but only signed by my husband even though it was a joint mortgage. 

I have now received a letter today dated 2 October which is turning down our claim because it was dated back to 1998-2000 and "at the time of the sale, lenders were not required to inform you of the existence or size of this commission" so not covered by the current FCA rules.  We apparently do not fall "within the scope of an Unfair Relationship assessment".

Does anyone know if this is true?  Can we not claim PPI because the rules were different in 1998 to what they are now even though we had no idea that there was PPI on the mortgage.  Is it worth me appealing the decision or taking it to the Ombudsman?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.  Thank you.

societys_child

Does anyone know if this is true?  Can we not claim PPI because the rules were different in 1998 to what they are now even though we had no idea that there was PPI on the mortgage.

Yes, it's true.

They did nothing wrong, so no "claim" to be made.

PPI would have been obvious.

If you had it, a direct debit would be paid to someone every month every month . .

carolann312

But that's the thing.  The only direct debit was the mortgage payment otherwise we would have known.  I thought this was the crux of the matter that PPI payments were incorporated into the mortgage payment so that the customer was unaware it was there.

dunstonh

We have always said no to any insurance on loans and mortgages so could not understand why there was PPI on this mortgage. 

That is very unusual position to take on a mortgage.  Most people in the UK have some insurance to cover them on the mortgage.  Most typically life assurance but MPPI is common enough.   Plus, its strange that you didn't know as the monthly payments for Natwests MPPi was a standalone direct debit.   

 It now turns out that the aforementioned form was for PPI but only signed by my husband even though it was a joint mortgage. 

Very common for that to be the place.  e..g where the spouse is a housewife.   Or where one is the main earner.

I have now received a letter today dated 2 October which is turning down our claim because it was dated back to 1998-2000 and "at the time of the sale, lenders were not required to inform you of the existence or size of this commission" so not covered by the current FCA rules.  We apparently do not fall "within the scope of an Unfair Relationship assessment".

That is not the complaint rejection reason.     You appear to have missed that off in your post.

When a complaint fails, they have to carry out a Plevin check.   Plevin was a court case the resulted in the courts finding against the lender due to section 140a of the consumer credit act which became effective in 2008.    Mortgages were not under the consumer credit act in 1998 and 1998 is before 2008 anyway.  So, it never fell under the scope of Plevin.

Does anyone know if this is true?

Yes.

Can we not claim PPI because the rules were different in 1998 to what they are now even though we had no idea that there was PPI on the mortgage. 

As your husband is deceased, you cannot make allegations of what he may or may not have thought on a policy he bought.  

What you are asking is similar to a road speed being changed this year from 50 to 30 and you wanting all the people who drove over 30 before the speed was changed to be prosecuted.   That would not be logical and the same applies to the insurance purchase.

 Is it worth me appealing the decision or taking it to the Ombudsman?

You haven't actually stated the reason the complaint was rejected.  You have only mentioned the plevin check. So, all we cannot comment on at this stage is that.  And the FOS will not change that decision as Natwest are correct.

But that's the thing.  The only direct debit was the mortgage payment otherwise we would have known.  I thought this was the crux of the matter that PPI payments were incorporated into the mortgage payment so that the customer was unaware it was there.

You are mistaken. Natwest's MPPI was a standalone product. Not built into the debt.  It was also monthly regular premium. Just how PPI should be set up.   That is one fo the reasons why most MPPI complaints fail.

carolann312

Dunstonh No other reason was given why the complaint was rejected apart from the reason I have already given. As for the separate direct debit for the MPPI I don't know why you mention Nat West as the mortgage was with the TSB. 

dunstonh

Dunstonh No other reason was given why the complaint was rejected apart from the reason I have already given.

That is strange as the plevin check is only carried out on rejected complaints. It is not carried out on upheld complaints. So, we know from that information that the complaint did not succeed.  However, you don't appear to know why it didn't succeed.

As for the separate direct debit for the MPPI I don't know why you mention Nat West as the mortgage was with the TSB. 

I don't know why I said it either.   I meant TSB.  However, it makes no difference.  it had its own direct debit.

brettcta

dunstonh said:

Dunstonh No other reason was given why the complaint was rejected apart from the reason I have already given.

That is strange as the plevin check is only carried out on rejected complaints. It is not carried out on upheld complaints. So, we know from that information that the complaint did not succeed.  However, you don't appear to know why it didn't succeed.

As for the separate direct debit for the MPPI I don't know why you mention Nat West as the mortgage was with the TSB. 

I don't know why I said it either.   I meant TSB.  However, it makes no difference.  it had its own direct debit.

The OP might have put in a Plevin only complaint. We saw loads of them where there was no evidence of a mis-sale complaint having gone in previously. A lot were received off the back of people like Martin Lewis regularly talking about a Plevin and the average complainant in the street having no idea what it meant and just firing a Plevin complaint off through resolver because they’d heard it mentioned on the telly.

carolann312

I did not put any complaint in at all - Plevin or otherwise. As you will see from my original post it was the TSB who told me we had a PPI policy with them and they were registering it as a complaint. Until I was informed of this we had no idea that we had the policy. I am going to ring them to ask why we were rejected and the reason why.

[Deleted User]

carolann312 said:

I did not put any complaint in at all - Plevin or otherwise. As you will see from my original post it was the TSB who told me we had a PPI policy with them and they were registering it as a complaint. Until I was informed of this we had no idea that we had the policy. I am going to ring them to ask why we were rejected and the reason why.

In your original post you state clearly you DID try and claim [sic] PPI

A bank is well within their rights (and it is to your benefit) to look at other products you had if you made a complaint about PPI to see if there is miss-selling even if you didn't complain about the other product (i.e. your loan). It is logical to assume that someone complaining about PPI on cards would most likely be unhappy about PPI on say a short term unsecured loan (if they had offered you a refund, you could have said no if you actually wanted the PPI)

You were aware you had the policy as you signed the paperwork agreeing to take it out when you took the loan, you simply forgot. It is a claims company myth that PPI could be added without the borrower's knowledge or agreement - the loan would be for more money that you asked, you'd notice on your first statement and complain and thus their little racket would be exposed.

As it is, it seems you were not miss-sold and Plevin doesn't apply, so you can rest easy that the loan was sold properly.